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Author Topic: Ed & Elaine Brown's Fall Freedom Festival September 15, 2007  (Read 14327 times)

Keyser Soce

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Re: Ed & Elaine Brown's Fall Freedom Festival September 15, 2007
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2007, 10:40:11 pm »

Freedom, I pay plenty of taxes but I don't pay federal income tax and do my best to avoid the others. I ran a retail store for 3 years and collected no sales tax. Anything I can buy used or online and avoid paying sales tax, I do. At this point I would say the biggest taxes I currently pay are excise taxes on the phone bill which I plan to mostly do away with via skype and gas taxes which I plan to mostly do away with by purchasing a desiel and making my own fuel. Thanks for not being mean, I'm quite sensitive  ;).
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"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain

LibertyforLife

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Re: Ed & Elaine Brown's Fall Freedom Festival September 15, 2007
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2007, 10:02:00 am »

Freedom, I wasn't trying to say it was flawed, I thought it was interesting. I've decided not to focus on tax related stuff anymore or spend time reading it because I've read enough to understand that no one has the right to take from me anything I have, regardless of their position.

You don't appear to be a human lacking of intelligence so I only add this as a reminder that the Constitution, a document that was at the very least an experiment in government, was not wholly created by one man but by several men. As man is flawed so is anything they create. I think that it is interesting that Jefferson understood Locke's theories and that the fifth amendment actually passed. As I understand Locke, he believed that life, liberty, and property were the rights of the individual and that no man has a higher claim to their life, liberty, and property, then he who owns the rights. If this is true, which I believe it is, then the fifth is a clear violation of Locke's principles and as such is invalid.

I think the Constitution was a good start. It lasted a good 50 years and I think its now time for a new Constitution, a new form of government. This government ought to stem from the rights of the individual, not the State as time has shown us doesn't work. This Constitutional Experiment was a failure. It was a good try, but it was indeed a failure.

I think you, like most people who were brought up in public schools who preach 'government is needed', can not conceive of the existence without government. Perhaps this comes from you not understanding the concepts of liberty, let me cover them quickly.

All rights start from the right to life. The creator granted you your right to life by creating you and then giving you the ability to conceive you are alive. If you are alive then who owns you, can another own you, logically no, because the right was granted to you by your creator as an "inalienable right", one that can not be separated from your being. Since your creator created you, only it has the right to assign your right to life to anyone and it chose you as the owner of that right. Since you own your right to life, you own yourself and no one has a higher authority to your life then you do, unless they can prove they exists above the creator.

Since you own your right to life, you have the freedom to use your life as you see fit, this is your "inalienable right" to liberty that everyone talks about. That is to do whatever makes you happy to do.

When you combine the right to life and the right to liberty you create a third right, that is of property. Whatever you create through the exercise of the right to life and the right to liberty is yours and yours alone. No one but the creator has any higher right to your life, liberty, or property. The logic being, he who creates, controls his creation. It is because of this concept that the creator has authority over your life and chooses to allow you to control it, that you can't give your life away.

You can on a limited basis give away your liberty, because it is only through the exercise of your right to life that your right to liberty exists. So you can become a slave to another if you choose to. The same goes for property, you can freely give up your right to your property and give it to another. Just as you do when you pay your taxes or what-not. This the 'voluntary' part of tax collection everyone hears of.

You have as a right of liberty to associate with whomever you wish. You have the right to enter into any contract you wish to enter. This is the formation of government. Individuals coming together to agree on how they will use their life, liberty, and property to protect their rights. Experience has shown however that man is not perfect and the nature of government is not perfect that is why we have the right to dissolve any association and contract at will that we choose to do so and why we have the right to reform, replace, to to wholly dissolve government.

I think we have enough evidence that man wants to control other men. That until man is perfect, government will remain flawed and imperfect. It is this logical conclusion that I have come to and why I preach government alright, self-governance.

I say let every man enter into contract with every other man, the way he feels will best protect his life, liberty, and property. Forcing anyone to do what you think is the right thing is immoral and evil and that which does it, such as government, is immoral and evil. If you want government, if you feel the need for government, then by all means create your own government. Enter into slavery as you see fit, however I will not enter into your enslavement because I believe I am a free-man.

The definition of insanity is to continue to do the exact same thing over and over again and expect a different result. This time government will be different because we created it. Or this time it will be different because x, y, z. It is because the nature of government is control, that it is immoral and evil. Anyone who believes that forcing others to comply to government is therefore, logically, immoral and evil as well.
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John C

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Re: Ed & Elaine Brown's Fall Freedom Festival September 15, 2007
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2007, 07:59:29 pm »


I think the Constitution was a good start. It lasted a good 50 years and I think its now time for a new Constitution, a new form of government. This government ought to stem from the rights of the individual, not the State as time has shown us doesn't work. This Constitutional Experiment was a failure. It was a good try, but it was indeed a failure.


Was it a failure? Or did it work exactly how they planned? (to grow government !).
It hasen't stopped growing since it was started.
Bring back The Articles of Confederation.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Ed & Elaine Brown's Fall Freedom Festival September 15, 2007
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2007, 08:09:38 pm »

by the way .... the feds treatened or arrested the party goers

I wonder if they were following the law or the constitution ... maybe they just wanted to show ed the law without an audience
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"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

LibertyforLife

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Re: Ed & Elaine Brown's Fall Freedom Festival September 15, 2007
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2007, 11:06:02 am »

That depends on what Law you are talking about. There is Natural Law, this is 'God's Law' and the law that applies to everyone. Then there is the Federal and various State Constitutions which are the Supreme Law of the Land which apply to everyone within that land. Then you have this Statutory law thing which are only rules that have the effect of law on those claiming to belong to the United States of America incorporated, and the various incorporated States united.

They were following 'Statutory Law' which doesn't apply to anyone but those who are employed by the various corporations authorized by the Federal or State corporations.

Us Freemen are allowed to go where we want and do what we want so long as we don't violate the Supreme Laws of the Land or Natural Law.
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Freedom-Isnt-Free

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Re: Ed & Elaine Brown's Fall Freedom Festival September 15, 2007
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2007, 07:44:34 am »

I haven't much more to add to this thread, other than to agree with and amplify what Forrest stated:

Man is flawed.  No doubt about it.  ANYTHING man creates is flawed, including government.  That includes the status quo government...private sector government...and self-government. 

Natural Law is perfect, but it only works perfectly with a perfect adjudicator/enforcer....and until we meet God, we lack the perfection necessary to implement Natural Law.  We should strive for perfection, but in our flawed human state, we each have a different idea of the best course of action.
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