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Author Topic: Some interstate banks  (Read 5291 times)

lloydbob1

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Re: Some interstate banks
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2007, 07:39:44 am »

Can't you take your check to the bank that issued it, or, if there is no branch in CA, a bank that will honor i?
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LibertyforLife

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Re: Some interstate banks
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2007, 10:09:00 am »

Some thoughts.....first I'm all for for the starting of a "people's" financial union. I prefer not to use the words, "bank", "credit union", of "financial institution" on the grounds these are special words and are regulated by governments. I would suggest that the union should use its own money system as a preference and then USD as a back up. As people seem to think the Liberty Dollar is just 'some overpriced silver', I suggest that we use it, just to spite them. The market, once established would make them either accept it at face value or, once "dollar to zero" happens, starve. My personal choice.

Further I urge anyone who wants to start a business not to ask for permission from the government to exist. See, your submission(drop your pants) for application(bend over) for registration(take it up the ass), means once accepted you are contractually obligated to comply with any and all regulations mandated by the majority of elected(and non-elected) officials. You are just re-inventing the wheel at this point. Why start up a CU at all if its just going to be like every other CU. Take over an existing CU by getting elected to its board.

In any submission, you are submitting to their will. In any application, you are ask, pleading, and begging, for permission. In any registration, you are signing over ownership of a 'thing' to government and then in return, you get a piece of paper entitling you to the 'Rights of Ownership'. When your house, your car, your child, or you, register something, you in effect disclaiming ownership, and the government then claims ownership, and you are listed as owner of 'registration/title', not to the 'thing' but to the piece of paper. So if you want to play the government's game, please by all means, of course the game is stacked against you, because who makes the rules and regulations? The existing larger then you companies which can create rules and regulations there by forcing you out of the market.

As a cash and carry individual, this stemming from an incident where a credit union decided to without any notification take my money and give it to a creditor because a bank asked them to, close my checking account, and then continue to ask whenever I cash a check if I want the change in my savings account or my checking(which is closed!), I can tell you that you can indeed take your check to the issuing 'institute' and they will cash it. I've dealt with the banks who say, we will cash it for free if you open an account with us, otherwise its a $15.00 charge to cash it. Simply either inform them, that you will have to notify their member of this and that in the future refuse all payments from that member and also to suggest that the member take their business to a more open and friendly bank. I generally use this after asking for the branch manager. They try to put a lower level manager on the case, and this is a waste of time, sometimes. Goto the top. I've found dropping phrases like, 'are you going to dishonor this check?' to be useful as I suspect that they are subject to penalties if they do so because they get uncomfortable about it.

Even if you go this route, you will be required to furnish ID, I haven't tried the 'I don't have any ID to show you' and pressed it hard yet, but I might do it to see what results. Further they will want an address and phone number, but none of them every verify it, or show they have some verification process for it.
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FreeBoB

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Re: Some interstate banks
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2007, 12:09:59 pm »

Financial institutions, at least in the securities industry, are now starting to use some system the USPS has set up for address verification. It doesn't work very well. I've had two situations where the automated verification system came up with a 'previous' address and changed it in records without even asking me or my client! And one time some other New Yorker's mutual fund account was changed to my address and I got his statement! Bad syatem that takes the people out of this.  I'm told that it helps with 'dead' addresses and people who fail to update their addresses with financial institutions. :P
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Ron Helwig

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Re: Some interstate banks
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2007, 03:30:26 pm »

I looked into this back when I was in Minnesota, and it would not have been worthwhile there. However, it might be worth doing here.

In other words, I'd like to see more research and do some of my own; but I'm tentatively "in".

I've been in NH for over 2 years now, and been a Liberty Dollar associate since '99 so I'd certainly be ecstatic to get involved if there was a way to get the CU to be able to use LDs.

BTW,
http://nhlibertydollar.com  ;D

However state credit unions fall under state regulations.  The state bank commissioner is unlikely to veto bylaws or otherwise deny a group of citizens who feel strongly about an issue, especially a group organized along similar political goals w/ elected representatives who can alter or repeal the laws which give him the authority to do so.  I really think we'll be OK here.

The advantages of playing within the system; being able to process checks, make loans, being free of income tax, etc far outweigh having to file some paperwork.  The mechanisms for a credit union to play well with other credit unions and banks exist and are well known, the mechanisms for a non-bank to work with banks do not.

You are just re-inventing the wheel at this point. Why start up a CU at all if its just going to be like every other CU. Take over an existing CU by getting elected to its board.

The difference is that here we'll have nearly 100% of the member vote, a coup of another credit union would involve trying to outnumber the existing membership in order to gain control of their collective financial capital and established resouces.  Legal, yes, but unethical and not a good way to attract support for our cause.  Remember, the incumbent credit union's members will be our neighbors.

No - we are not creating just another credit union.  We are creating a credit union based on privacy and independence.  In many cases banks and credit unions have their own policies above and beyond what is actually required by the state.  We can set, from the start, the policies of what information is asked for, what information is stored, and the procedures under which we comply with regulations.  We can create mechanisms to isolate and protect our members in a way no other bank or credit union will.

... not to mention accepting Liberty Dollar and other alternative currencies.  The fact that a "bank" is exchanging and accepting it gives those currency systems a feeling of legitimacy for people, including some Free Staters, who would otherwise be wary of accepting them.  We've seen this with Alternatives Federal Credit Union in their acceptance of Ithaca Hours.

In the words of Buckminster Fuller, Don't fight forces, use them.
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LibertyforLife

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Re: Some interstate banks
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2007, 10:50:06 am »

I don't see how it is unethical to take over a credit union if you are elected to the position. Its unethical to say you are going to do X, and then elected and do Y. If you tell people, if we are elected we will bring you better security and privacy to your money and then do it, its not unethical. People as a whole are disinterested in how the thing works, so long as it works. If your goal is the betterment of the members, and you truly believe in your positions there is nothing unethical to being elected as a individual or a group of individuals and create new policies and retire old ones.

Often it is said, it easier to destroy then to create, to reform then to start a new.

Regardless of who your master is, if it be Federal Government, or State Government, they are still your master and as their slave, you have to do what they say when they say it. If you were independent of the State or the Federal Governments you would not need their permission to do whatever your group wants to do.

The funny thing about rules and regulations is that they can be changed. Perhaps the day comes when a State regulation is passed forbidding that you can use the Liberty Dollar in your credit union. You can't use the Liberty Dollar, or the credit union risks losing its government benefits and privileges, such as protection, access to other credit unions, and a host of all the things that make it great to have a credit union.

I am no longer a 'citizen' or a 'resident' nor do I choose to ever be a slave again. It will be harder for a union that I create to operate, however I have the free market advantage, that your credit union won't have if its established under the State rules and regulations system.

I often think about the great words of wisdom offered by the Bible, '...the borrower is servant to the lender.' If you ask government for permission to do something, then you accept that they are your master and you are its slave, free men have no master save God, and require no permission to do anything, because government can grant nothing from which it does not control.

If you want liberty, and you want freedom, why do you continue to behave like a slave, when you are free to leave the roles of 'citizen' and 'resident' if you choose to? With this comes responsibility, you have to arrange for your own protection, your wealth creation and so on and so forth. Thats what responsible free men do, take care of themselves and help their brother and sisters when they can.

I believe your idea is great and worthy, however I ask what happens when you find what you want to do violates the rules and regulations? As the rules and regulations are generally created by those who benefit from them, namely other well established credit unions who are more able to conform to new rules and regulations then those just entering the market, how can you change the rules and regulations when this 'democracy' system defeats you?

Government is a means to control. Those who have the money have the means to control the system. The system they wish to create and maintain is designed to help them and to hurt their competition. The market they exist in is designed so that new start ups require large amounts of resources in order to compete, if they can at all. The rules and regulations are designed so that the mold is cast and you have to follow their mold.

I do not wish to stop you from trying, I wish only to provide evidence to you that by working within the system, you are slave to that system. I think its silly to assume that your credit union will be any different then any other credit union because credit unions exist as they are because of the rules and regulations. Form does not follow function, in a non-free market, rather the function of the thing follows the form of the thing.

I say, don't fight the forces, render them harmless.
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Ron Helwig

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Re: Some interstate banks
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2007, 11:08:07 am »

I am no longer a 'citizen' or a 'resident' nor do I choose to ever be a slave again.

You can say that as often as you like, but the government will never hear you. No matter how loud you protest that you are not part of the system, they will act as if you are. That is why the government must be changed.

An individual might be able to "stay under the radar" for a time, but any reasonably sized organization will not. Just look at the Ed and Elaine Brown situation: they tried to stay under the radar, but eventually the government spied them and rammed them through a kangaroo court. Imagine how hard they'd come down on the Liberty Dollar if norfed wasn't playing by their rules.
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LibertyforLife

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Re: Some interstate banks
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2007, 11:50:50 am »

Actually NORFED is defunct. The new organization is called Liberty Services.

The US Mint has already issued at statement to the effect, 'Under 18 U.S.C. ยง 486, it is a Federal crime to utter or pass, or attempt to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver intended for use as current money except as authorized by law.'. This has hit the LS hard in the bottom line, so they resorted to the only thing that they can do and that is sue the government.

The last update was that the government responded to LS by issuing a motion to dismiss on the grounds the court has no jurisdiction over the subject matter and over the persons being sued.

Ron, you are correct and the government may never hear me and may treat me as if I am. While I disagree with the reasons given by Ed and Elaine Brown, I condone their actions. If you read the words of your founding fathers, they would advice you to fight for your liberty, for liberty isn't given, it is earned. By blood, by sweat, and by tears.

I leave you with some words written by a man since long dead at a time when man was as free as he has ever been in the history of the world. He wrote, 'Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!  I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!'

I ask the same that he asked, in a more modern tongue.

Is your life so precious that you would rather live at the point of a gun, a slave, mear property to be controlled? God created you,  endowed you with life, free will, and above all free. I don't care what you choose to do; I for one choose to be free or to die, because death is better then slavery.

If you choose to 'work the system' and be a 'good slave' then do so. I prefer the moral ground that our fore fathers lived and died to create for us, that we have for too long forgotten their words. That we would rather be slaves then free men, is an insult to their memory. Of course you get to choose for you, I get to choose for me. I would rather the government decide it would rather leave us alone then to fight us, but often we don't get that choice.

It's ironic that people today don't realize that history really does repeat itself. They see that the government is the same as the government pre-1776. We have only changed the players and the names.
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LibertyforLife

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Re: Some interstate banks
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2007, 10:07:30 am »

Check out Title 18 section 485 - coins and bars or Title 18 section 491 - tokens or paper used as money.

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