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Author Topic: How do you feel about FSP?  (Read 14738 times)

ShrineGuard

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2003, 06:28:18 pm »

I do completely agree with you, and, if I am correct, the idea of a tyranny of the majority was concieved by Alexis De Tocqueville.  He pointed out that, "The very essence of democratic government consists in the absolute sovereignty of the majority; for there is nothing in democratic states that is capable of resisting it."

All he said that did resist it was the Constitution...Funny how most American's don't care about that.  Too bad.

You might want to read some of Ron Paul's speeches on his website, http://www.house.gov/paul.  One of his big issues is the change of the American Republic into more of a true, tyrannical, Democracy.
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Simplicityx3

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2003, 03:38:30 am »

Well fortunately for me I will probably be moving closer to my friends if I go to NH. My friends and I have been throwing around the idea of moving to Maine for quite some time. And NH is right next to Maine, so I see it's location as a benefit. And although I have come to love my hometown, it's important to move on too. Plus, I think NH has the kind of environment/landscape and yet also small town feel that I like anyway, and it will be 'the place' for anarcho-peoples. But, I value freedom above security or the illusion of security anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Unless I find I'm looking for 'something else', I will probably end up in or around NH.

And 5pectre, I think I've read some of that crap in the Anarchist FAQ about how capitalism doesn't jive with anarchism. Hopefully I will look into it sometime and we can start a thread...
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Our life is frittered away by detail...Simplify, simplify, simplify!...Simplicity of life and elevation of purpose.  -Henry David Thoreau (Walden--Where I Lived And What I Lived For)

ShrineGuard

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2003, 11:07:53 pm »

People don't seem to really connect anarchism with capitalism because back in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the anarchists wanted not to simply get rid of government, but wanted to eliminate private property as well.

And so there is still this conception in America that anarchy is inherently anti-capitalistic, because of the old anarchists (and still some modern ones) insistance on getting rid of private property.
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Simplicityx3

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2003, 04:55:31 am »

Yeah, but I think that's kind of an unfair (or at least inaccurate) definition of anarchism. I mean, I define anarchism (or anarcho-Christianity) as an advocacy of freedom, no matter what. But even if you have a different view of anarchism, it would at least lean towards freedom--potential for both good and great evil.

And I think I spoke too soon because I do have some problems with capitalism, which I define as market-economies (although my definition may need some revision), like how in order to expand you have to be selfish/greedy, etc etc. But as for the private property side of it, how could an anarchist not want that? Because of currency/private property, material things are easily quantifiable and distributed. And there is the greatest potential for good and evil when the means are clear and more focus can be put on the ends.

But yes, I think what you said rings true. The misguided acts and opinions of previous so-called anarchists has given society a stereotype to perpetuate, and we know how that all too often goes....
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Our life is frittered away by detail...Simplify, simplify, simplify!...Simplicity of life and elevation of purpose.  -Henry David Thoreau (Walden--Where I Lived And What I Lived For)

ShrineGuard

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2003, 04:46:33 pm »

I had always been told that capitalism is using money to make money (capital-ism, after all).  I think that's a very fair judgement.  Loans, stock markets, and all of those such things.

Of course, I have yet to even take an economics class, so I'm not totally straight on it. ;D
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Johnny

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2003, 01:14:48 am »

The person who wrote the Faq should read Rothbard's Man, Economy, and State or perhaps Mises' Human Action and then will maybe be able to understand why something as simple as the subjective theory of value is correct.  Both also go in detail as why the Labor theory of value is wholly ridiculous.  

Mises' work would show him that the nature of human action is the same under any political or economic situation.  The first main criticism of the theory is as follows,

"are supposed to measure the "marginal utility" of the commodity, yet consumers need to know the price first in order to evaluate how best to maximise their satisfaction."

Well, if he read Mises or Rothbard(and the Austrian scholars that he claims to understand), he would know they argue that consumers and producers always seek the maximum benefit with the least amount of resources.  That means that a producer would prefer to have the consumer pay as much as possible and the consumer would prefer to pay nothing.  Price is determined by different people's valuations on how much they think something will be worth to them.
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dlenmn

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2003, 04:12:22 pm »

I had always been told that capitalism is using money to make money (capital-ism, after all).  I think that's a very fair judgement.  Loans, stock markets, and all of those such things.

Of course, I have yet to even take an economics class, so I'm not totally straight on it. ;D

That's what Marx called late capitalism, which may be what were in. Other forms of capitalism has some product as an intermediary: $$$ -> make product -> more $$$ (where as late capitialism is $$$$ -> more $$$$). As for the definition, try a dictionary:

cap·i·tal·ism  (k?p??-tl-?z'?m) Pronunciation Key
n.

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

TANSTAAFL

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2004, 03:20:37 pm »

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I've also wondered why so many people praise the democracy of our country.  The ability of the majority to take everything away from you isn't a warm idea, in my opinion.  There are no checks or balances in a true democracy, merely empty promises and empty politicians...  One thing I believe this country will never lose, even if we're reduced to an authoritarian society, is the blind patriotism.  People will still wave their flags and speak of how great it is to live in a "free" country


This is very true.  America has done a very good job of brainwahsing the people into their patriotism.  They are too busy waving their flags that they do not notice the government taking away their rights.  Slowly, bit by bit, our form of government is turning into a dictatorship.  Meanwhile, they are slowly, bit by bit, taking away our liberty and killing the constitution.  I know a guy who would not at all care if the constitution were to be thrown into the fire.

One "free state" cannot by itself change our system, but perhaps, one "free state"  could show the world what can be done by a people who are tired of being oppressed by a Tyrant government.  

I have inserted my two cents.

Gandalf Stormcrow, Bringer of Tidings.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2004, 03:23:21 pm by Gandalf the White »
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

Morpheus

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2004, 06:02:35 pm »

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I know a guy who would not at all care if the constitution were to be thrown into the fire.

A large percentage of the U.S. American people hold to that sentiment, Gandalf. Sad but true.
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otaku

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2004, 02:15:24 pm »

yes. But hopefully I can convert many of my family and get them to move with me. And there is always girlfriends/wife to keep you company and friends but as for leaving to nh for me most of my family I have nothing to do with except say 5 or so I think its very doable for me if I give it a shot
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j_freeman

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2004, 01:08:12 am »

Regarding the original topic...

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I would like to hear how you guys feel about the FSP.  What do think of moving away from family, friends, school, and such?

I think the FSP is a great idea. Hopefully we can get 20,000 people signed up within the next 2 years.

I will miss my friends and family, no doubt, but I feel it's my civic duty to move to New Hampshire. I just can't miss out on something I think is truly going to be a turning point in history, a turning point in worldwide freedom. It's our best shot at "liberty in our lifetime" so I, personally, have no choice.

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Do you think it will be worth it if we can create more freedom for ourselves and others?

How would it not be worth it? I've pretty much dedicated my entire life to acheiving freedom. Simply moving and being active in the local politics seems like nothing compared to what it could take, if you think about it.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2004, 01:09:28 am by j_freeman »
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LouneWolfe

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2004, 02:44:42 pm »

All my life I have thought and acted much unlike the "normal american". Approximately six months ago I realized that my thoughts were that of a complete liberal. I have broken more laws wantonly than I can count, nothing that I have done illegally has ever hurt anyone or even caused me any ill effects. My girlfriend and I got in a fight last night and I got mad and decided to find a way to get away from our still god "fearing" government that controls our individual rights. The point of talking about my current relationship problem is that she gets mad because she gives up so much of her freedom for me that I do not ask of her and I don't give up any of mine to her. She expects me to give up part of my freedom for her, and frankly that is something I will never do for anyone. I'm quite mature and mature looking for my age, I.Q. 160, and great with computers(both hardware and software). WHEN I join the FSP in about a year I know what my services to the free community will be. I thank the creators of this project, I know for a fact that when it succeeds it will be my, and many others, saving grace. Just beware Bush..... if he will attack Iraq without evidence he will definately try to stop this somehow....that's just the kind of guy he is. 8)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2004, 02:45:04 pm by LouneWolfe »
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