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Author Topic: How do you feel about FSP?  (Read 14732 times)

Mega Joule

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How do you feel about FSP?
« on: August 05, 2002, 05:13:35 pm »

I would like to hear how you guys feel about the FSP.  What do think of moving away from family, friends, school, and such?

Do you think it will be worth it if we can create more freedom for ourselves and others?

Mega Joule
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"One essential of a free government is that it rest wholly on voluntary support.  And one certain proof that a goverment is not free, is that it coerces more or less persons to support it, against their will."  (Lysander Spooner, 1867)

Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2002, 02:54:32 pm »

I think that FSP is a great oppritunity have more freedom.  FSP is a good way for freedom-loving people to get together and do somthing important.  However, I would hate to leave my friends, my town and my Boy Scout troop.  The thing that I would miss the most is the ocean.


:) GANDALF THE WHITE  :)  
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

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foadi

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2002, 01:40:36 pm »

I do not like the idea of using democracy to attain 'liberty'.  I also believe this plan will backfire if we don't convert  to an anarcho-capitalist society as soon as the opportunity presents itself.  But, I have nothing better to do, so I will most likely join in the future...
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The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.

debra

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2002, 02:00:42 pm »


I do not like the idea of using democracy to attain 'liberty'.  I also believe this plan will backfire if we don't convert  to an anarcho-capitalist society as soon as the opportunity presents itself.  But, I have nothing better to do, so I will most likely join in the future...


Foadi, ya little anarcho-scalawag! Nice to see you here. Jeremy kick you out?  ;D

Just an FYI, it's mostly minarchist types here, and you have to control your potty mouth somewhat  ;).  But I'm glad you came over!

Debra "anarchomom" Ricketts
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foadi

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2002, 02:23:06 pm »

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Nice to see you here.


Same here...

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Jeremy kick you out?  ;D  


Not yet, thankfully.

Quote
Just an FYI, it's mostly minarchist types here, and you have to control your potty mouth somewhat  ;).  


I'll try.   :D
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The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.

5pectre

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2002, 07:37:24 pm »

I also believe this plan will backfire if we don't convert  to an anarcho-capitalist society

anarcho capitalist is an oxymoron (as i have mentioned somewhere else in this forum).

for further information, consult this url: http://flag.blackened.net/intanark/faq/

i particularly call your attention to: http://flag.blackened.net/intanark/faq/append1.html
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foadi

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2002, 10:03:42 pm »


anarcho capitalist is an oxymoron

How?
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The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.

Charno

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2002, 11:07:50 pm »


ya little anarcho-scalawag!

I'm here too!
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Elizabeth

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2002, 11:11:12 pm »

Same rules apply.
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telomerase

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Anarcho-capitalism: already been done
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2003, 07:28:12 pm »

David Friedman, economist and son of Milton Friedman, has written quite a bit on anarcho-capitalist economics and law. He points out that Iceland was founded and run for 150 years under a system where no one was above the law (i.e. no priviledged government class); anyone who wants to make informed criticisms of anarchy needs to read his site:

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/index.shtml

(Of course there are leftover 1970s communists who call themselves "anarchists" as they campaign for government control of trade, but calling a skunk something else doesn't make it smell better. Except to marketing majors.)
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bipolar17

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2003, 10:38:37 pm »

I don't understand why people think we live in a Democracy, well I guess unfortunately we do now.   A Democracy is a horrible thing.  The media tries to at every opportunity point out in some way that we live in a democracy and how great it is. A democracy is where the majority rules unconditionally, like if the majority decides(or is convinced) to vote away the constitution then it happens.  We originally lived in a constitutional republic and should still today.  Where the constitution is the supreme law of the land, and anyone in government who violates it in a government job will be convicted of treason.  The media tries to make it out that treason is only espionage, or helping the enemy and such.  Most people who commit treason never get into trouble anyway.  Just like Granddaddy Prescot Bush helped fund the nazis, and was convicted only of "helping the enemy" and fined 1 milllion dollars.
Bill Clinton commited treason by selling the chinese our sensitive missle technology, a few Brave army generals were planning to arrest and try their commander in cheif for treason using military force.  Unfortunatly the  Israeli latterday mata hari(sex spy) Monica Lewinsky was promoted to a high position in the pentagon to find out the names and information of these few brave constitutional men, she frequently vacationed with several high up at the pentagon and she found out the information and half of them were killed, suicided, and carcrashed.  The other half fled to a French CIA protected suburb in France. but enough about that. sorry for going on and on.
George W. Bush commited treason when he signed the patriot act.  He should be tried for treason. anyway....
 In a constitutional republic if the majority decides(or is convinced by controlled media) to give up the constitution and their rights, they can't do it unless they violently overthrow the government.  
The problem with our local police being opressive is that they like to opress, that might be why they joined , plus the Federal Government after 9/11 had the excuse to merge federal/state/local law enforcement which is just an excuse to further centralize policies and turn local police into an oppressive arm of the federal government.  the cause of all this centralization is the illegal and unconstitutional income tax, 16th  ammendment itself is blatantly unconstitutional, and was never ratified by all the states anyway.  Plus you don't have to pay it anyway if you know how, you file zero/zero i believe, I haven't tried it yet.  But anyway The federal government forces schools police stations, states everything to adopt the policies it wants or lose funding from income tax.  And thats how the whole nation got screwed up.  What we need is massive decentralization of government  (so that the local populace controls them and not the national media controlled masses, tax protest and stuff like that anyway .  

Anyway, anarchy is a power vacuum, anarchy is chaos in which immediate order will be formed.  what is as soon as their is anarchy the people with the most guns or the biggest guns take control of their locality or something.  Anarchy is non existant almost because anarchy is like a glass of clear water representing anarchy with a drop of blue food coloring to represent power in the glass at the same time.  The clear water immediately turns blue representing that order has been created out of chaos.  

Just like how the US creates anarchy in Iraq, so that they can form a new order

anyway, i am tired of typing , and I don't know much about anarcho-capitalism

Sincerely,
Richard
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ShrineGuard

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2003, 11:41:52 pm »

Well, as a former so-called anarcho-capitalist and now a minarchist, I do tend to look back upon anarcho-capitalisim somewhat unfavorable.

First off, that name.  How horrid.  I just don't like the ring it has.  It's like covering up 'anarchist' with the capitalist bit to make the name more mainstream.

Then, as I came to realize that true democracy most definatly is the most refined form of tyranny that exists, I became a minarchist because I believe that there is a thin line at which government can be kept as small as possible without rebounding into tyranny.  Go below the line, and the government will not last.  Go above the line, and the government will slowly grow larger.

I view the United States as a nation close, very close, to that line.  If you look at when the greatest strides against liberty have come, it's all when the system of a republic degenerates into an emotional mess...Civil War, WWI, Great Depression, WWII, 9/11, and so on.

So I have faith in the Republic, I do.  It's the best system we have out there currently.  What brings us above the line, and down the path of government enlargement, is the flexibility of the constitution.  While very well done, the constitution is just a bit too flexible.

With a true knowledge of the republican system, though, the time is ripe for a more refined constitution.  Something that allows change...but not any change.  Can't blame the founding fathers for their lack of access to the History channel and the internet.  ;D

Maybe, when the technology allows, true democracy can be allow...although with severe restrictions to keep it from self destruction.

Minarchism is what I see as the search for that thin line.  A government large enough to ensure that it neither crumbles, nor grows, nor is rendered incapable to change meaningfully during extraordinary situations.  For many of us, perfection ;)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2003, 03:20:06 pm by ShrineGuard »
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MajesticLeo

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2003, 02:06:16 pm »

as I came to realize that true democracy most definatly is the most refined form of government that exists,

Interesting idea.  Allow me to give you an example of how wonderful a "true democratic" process is.  In Missouri the idea of Concealed Carry was put to a vote of the people.  In a strictly democratic process it was defeated soundly.  Sounds good so far, right?  Unfortunately, the population of all but about 7 of the 114 counties voted to have concealed carry.  What made the difference was the fact that St. Louis and Kansas City have so many more voters, they were able to get the bill voted down.   Thus, two small (geographic) areas of the state were able to dictate policy to the entire state.  That is the reason for a representative republic form of government.  (As you are well aware).  

Anyway I am glad to see young people interested and informed about these things.
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ShrineGuard

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2003, 03:19:20 pm »

Wow, sorry, I definatly did not mean to write the most refined form of government.  I ment to write tyranny.  Such things happen often with me, hehe.  I'll edit the above message now, though.
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Stockli

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Re:How do you feel about FSP?
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2003, 05:26:34 pm »

Hey guys, this is my first post.  

I've also wondered why so many people praise the democracy of our country.  The ability of the majority to take everything away from you isn't a warm idea, in my opinion.  There are no checks or balances in a true democracy, merely empty promises and empty politicians...  One thing I believe this country will never lose, even if we're reduced to an authoritarian society, is the blind patriotism.  People will still wave their flags and speak of how great it is to live in a "free" country.
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