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[underwater]

For the record:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/24/national/24DNA.html?pagewanted=print&position=bottom

A prosecutor was trying to block a death row inmate from having his conviction reopened on the basis of new evidence, and Judge Stith, of the Missouri Supreme Court, was getting exasperated. "Are you suggesting," she asked the prosecutor, that "even if we find Mr. Amrine is actually innocent, he should be executed?"

Frank A. Jung, an assistant state attorney general, replied, "That's correct, your honor."

[maestro]

Axiom #1: All justice systems are corrupt.

Can we agree on this? If not, how about...

Axiom #2: All justice systems tend toward corruption.

Or perhaps…

Axiom #3: All justice systems are fallible.

If any of these is true then the death penalty is inherently unjust because it is irreversible. Anyway, the cost of executing a death penalty case (no pun intended) is extremely expensive. I wonder if it costs less to simply house someone for 40+ years. That being said, I do not expect Free State jails to be resorts. More like solitary confinement with bread and water...

#1 and #2 fail based on the principle I described above, but #3 is the one thing that still concerns me about the Death Penalty.

[Simplicityx3]

Here are the problems I have with the death penalty:

1) As a Christian, I try to make it one of the main goals in my life to convince others to also believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins. That's all they need to do and they are saved (and going to heaven after they die). Unfortunately, they do all the believing in their heart, so you can never really know if someone is saved or not; maybe be extremely sure, but never completely sure. It's scary, but people could lie about it for a lifetime. So, if it's up to me, I want someone to live for as long as possible, so that they have the maximum chance to make the right choice and believe in Him.

2) I don't think that coercive punishment after the fact convinces as well as guilt and morality do. People will be most moral when they don't live under some law that is distant and impersonal, but when they become a law to themselves. When people are truly persuaded--on their own terms--to stop doing something, they really will stop doing it. The law/justice more or less just punishes people, points out what they did wrong, and angers them.

The least we should do is let people live. The better thing to do might be to shelter them from society and try and help them, but at least let them live.

[Justin]

Delving deep into my geekish roots, I have this quote for you from LoTR:

Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. . .

[ApocalypseKurtz]

hi everyone

I would like to suggest that the FSP should take a stand against the death penalty.  Considering the fact that we will keep taxes at a bare minimum or not at all, we must be as frugal as possible with government expenses.  The death penalty, given it's guaranteed appeals, is MUCH more expensive than life in prison.  Also, it has not been proven to have any deterrent effect whatsoever.  In fact, the U.S. region with the highest murder rate is the south, also the region that employs the death penalty the most.  Texas, which executes the most people, also has an above-average murder rate.  In addition to this is the fact that mistakes inevitably will occur.  Had we given these people life in prison, the mistakes could be corrected at least to some degree and these innocent people released.

[Penfist]

I would be willing to reconsider my pro-death penalty stance if the punishment system for those convicted of what are currently death penalty crimes involved a lifetime of penance type activities.

Said activities would not involve watching TV, lifting weights, raping fellow prisoners, or researching ways to sue the state.

Murderers and other criminals take something away from society. I would consider any plans to reform the penal system so that once convicted, criminals would have the opportunity to actually pay their debt to society and in some cases, it would take a lifetime to do that.

I would like to see criminals working, always working, doing something that benefits their victims, or the loved ones of those survived by their victims.

Imagine working your entire life for your ex-mother in law because you decided to murder your wife. Imagine stealing someone's TV and being forced to work five years until you had earned enough to replace it with a 52" flat screen.

[Reaper]

When we have a perfect and infallible justice system I'll be in favor of the death penalty.  Until then I will not give my sanction to government bureaucracy to decide who lives and who dies.

[Reaper]

"Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death!"
"Live Free or Die"

Would you rather be caged for Life in Prison?
or
Would you rather have death?

An innocent man in jail at least has hope that the truth will come out, and were it me I think I'd therefore want to live to continue to attempt to prove it.

A guilty man in jail knows he is guilty and will be there till he dies and may prefer death.

[DBPMAN]

my personal stance on this.. found guilty...and its found that the death penalty applies for your crime....  you have one appeal... you can take as long as you want to get it to trial.... however found guilty after the appeal... you should be put to death the next day...

of course Im only talking about violent offenders.. no pot smokers in jail or anything like that

but the question comes if you dont use the death penalty... then what are you gonna do with all the life servers... thats a lot of money to house someone for 70 years.. 3 square meals a day

but then another question arises should they have tv or computers in their cells?
prisioners today... have more goodies inside... then they do if they were free... what punishment is that?... I thought the whole point of putting someone in jail was to make them feel bad about what they did... and perhaps regret doing it
its no wonder most criminals who get out... perform another crime to get back in... where else can you have free 3 square meals a day.... and all the luxuries that society has to offer

so if you are a life server with no means of getting out... should tax payers money go to you to get your Masters degree?... what good will that do you if you cant get out to use it.. just give them books...and newspapers... enough for them to gain knowledge... and keep up with current events

you take away their goodies... have them stare at a 8x8 cell all day and we'll see how many criminals want to stay in prison

I truly see no benefit in NOT having a death penalty... cost more to hold these people for life than it would be for someone on death row

I hate to sound cruel about it... but no good comes from coddling those who do harm to others

if our religous fore fathers didnt have a problem with it.. why should we

[MarkBruns]

I don't think we're entitled to take life ... unless it's a matter of self-preservation ...  if it the criminals would prefer it.

As it is currently administered with lengthy delays (i.e. necessary safegaurds built into the system because of likelihood for mistakes, the human rush to judge/condemn, etc.) the death penalty has absolutely no deterrent effect.  It costs more to kill a criminal than it does to LOCK THE PERSON UP IN AN ABSOLUTELY SECURE CELL and take away all human contact.   The ONLY reason that it is an issue for discussion is because of the public demand for the death penalty.

The public has always clamored for the death penalty ... in the time of Socrates or of Christ, back in the middle ages ... during the Reign of Terror of the French Revolution ... and again today.  There have always been political COWARDS who call for the death penalty in an attempt to appease the hateful, screaming, ignorant masses.  All throughout history, these scum have been more than willing to leave the dirty details to others ... in these times, those details also involve the thankless task of lawyers who must attend to the tedious legal matters in courtroom (i.e., appeals, hearings, stays).