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Author Topic: "Community Schools Initiative"  (Read 17785 times)

MajesticLeo

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2003, 04:50:49 pm »

Guess I am just too old-fashioned.  Having kids "do what they want to do while they are there" is not my idea of school.  Why have any kind of school at all?  Just lay some books out at home and let them "do their thing" there.  I feel students need some kind of guidance in education, but then I also feel there are basic subjects everyone should learn.  (Even those who are going to spend the rest of their lives putting their old Ford's up on concrete blocks in the front yard and yelling at the "little woman" for another beer).   Now, I wouldn't hold a gun to anyone's head to make them do that, I would just send them off to New Hampshire...... ;D

At any rate, kids do not have the experience necessary to decide what they need to learn to succeed in life.  IMHO of course.
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arclight

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2003, 11:50:11 am »

I'd think that the major hurdle to get over would be to take the public funds out of education. Those tax dollars are like the educational HIV. As soon as parents take the responsibility of educating their children, whether by doing it themselves or putting money into a "community school" or parochial one. Either way, the choice has to lie with the parent. No more of that word "compulsory"! And if you have no children, how can anyone justify you paying taxes for someone elses kids' education?? I would personally put money into a community school, for my kids education. I don't believe I would be up to the task of educating my child in the manner I would like, as I 'm not nearly smart enough. So I hope I'd have the good judgement to pick an institution that would suffice. Cross my fingers. Jason: I'd send my kid to your mothers school anyday, look at what she did with you!!
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jhfenton

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2003, 02:45:30 pm »

The plan is a "Community Schools Initiative."  It would be a multifaceted project, operating at the state political level, the local political level, and through the nonprofit sector.  At the state political level, our non-partisan league would push a "community schools initiative act", which would provide state support for local communities that decide to transform their publicly owned & operated schools into private, nonprofit corporations managed by the community & the teachers.  The state support would be in the form of an end to "Robin Hood" payments by the local community to the state government for public education equalization, a tax rebate on state taxes to all individuals & businesses in the local area equivalent to the state subsidy, if any, foregone by moving to a private system, and perhaps also setting up a $500,000 endowment for the new community school for scholarships & financial aid.
I think something along these lines is politically feasible. (We are already seeing a trend toward charter schools. They are popping up all over Ohio, organized by non-profits.) We could co-opt the charter schools movement as a first step to pull finances away from the government-sponsored public schools.

A step-by-step FSP education process might look something like this:

1) "Community Schools" -- aka charter schools, privately-sponsored, but publicly funded [Already happening, to a limited extent]
2) Eliminate home-schooling barriers, including curriculum mandates, and extend freedom to "community schools"
3) Allow communities to either eliminate government-sponsored schools or convert them to private sponsorship, largely free of state oversight
4) Eliminate state oversight and "Robin Hood" payments, replace with tax credits and rebates, all government-sponsored schools and school boards would be automatically converted to private sponsorship.
5) (to be decided)

The first three steps could potentially be done very quickly, or even simultaneously, and would probably be supported by the overwhelming majoirty of the public. The resistance would come from the NEA and education establishment. They are already working to undermine charter schools in Ohio. Still, Dayton, Ohio will have nearly 20% of students in privately-sponsored charter schools this fall. [For reference, Ohio's charter law applies only to the Big Eight districts and to districts with Academic Emergency on their standardized testing report cards. About 33% of Ohio students are in such a district.]

Once the public gets used to competition for schools, the big step (#4) should be easier.
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arclight

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2003, 03:15:46 pm »


[quote author=JWe are already seeing a trend toward charter schools. They are popping up all over Ohio, organized by non-profits.) We could co-opt the charter schools movement as a first step to pull finances away from the government-sponsored public schools.

Quote
Hey jfhenton!
Where in Ohio are these charter schools? I live in Huber Heights/ Riverside! and our schools keep stealing property owners money away into their cavernous mouth. It would be spectacular if these schools were set up here. Maybe I am missing something in the news here, but if you have more info, I'd like to jump on this bandwagon. I really think this would be a start on the road towards community schools, which is something I would have to have for my children. Damn these idiots here in the public schools. I am losing a lot of my hair over this stuff, it's great that a reasoable solution might be in sight!
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jhfenton

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2003, 04:24:22 pm »

Hey jfhenton!
Where in Ohio are these charter schools? I live in Huber Heights/ Riverside! and our schools keep stealing property owners money away into their cavernous mouth. It would be spectacular if these schools were set up here. Maybe I am missing something in the news here, but if you have more info, I'd like to jump on this bandwagon. I really think this would be a start on the road towards community schools, which is something I would have to have for my children. Damn these idiots here in the public schools. I am losing a lot of my hair over this stuff, it's great that a reasoable solution might be in sight!
I don't know anything specific about Huber Heights or Riverside. I believe you are near Dayton, but are a separate district. One big hole in Ohio's law is that it is limited to the Big Eight districts and those who are failing even by the low state standards. If Huber Heights isn't failing badly enough, then you aren't blessed with competition under current law. Lobby your state reps to expand the program.

Here are a few general links:

Ohio Charter Schools Association -- http://www.ohiocharterschools.org/ -- with a list of schools by region
Ohio Department of Education Office of School Options -- http://www.ode.state.oh.us/school_options/ -- the proverbial fox guarding the hen house
Center for Education Reform page on Ohio Charter Schools law -- http://edreform.com/charter_schools/states/ohio.htm
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arclight

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2003, 04:58:19 pm »

So I see, said the blind man.
Thanks for the info, I will hook the speed dial on my idiot reps and start bugging the crap out of them again. The last time was about house bill 12, the concealed carry reform. Of course it didn't pass. Anyway, thanks for the heads up!
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bIlluminati

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2003, 09:45:41 pm »

$11,000 would get your kid into an elite school.  Most of the statistics that I've seen place avarage public school costs per pupil around $6000, and average private school tuition around $3000 per pupil.

Nope. That's the statistic the government and the NEA quote. What they don't tell you is that teacher cost per student is around $7,000, and building cost per student an additional $4,000 per student for a total of $11,000 per student per year. This cost is about the same for the best and the worst schools, with the worst schools actually costing a little bit more.
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jeanius

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2003, 10:38:46 am »

I'm curious about these numbers.  I think government inefficiency and other factors make the cost of educating a child higher than they would be if managed by private enterprise.  This is partly why education should be private.  There are many other reasons.  

Jean
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bookish_lass

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2003, 08:59:01 am »

It costs nowhere near $3000 / year to homeschool a child.
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RhythmStar

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2003, 06:42:50 pm »

It costs nowhere near $3000 / year to homeschool a child.

Even if you include the time of the parent(s)?

RS
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jeanius

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2003, 12:00:03 am »

The cost comparison is, in my mind, a sidetracking technique.  If there were decent schools, with decent curriculum, teaching methods, hours, etc. schools would be cool.  In the meantime, without decent schools my time to homeschool my children is an extemely worthwhile cost to incur - regardless of cost.

Jean
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bookish_lass

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2003, 07:40:25 am »

I was only thinking of the actual money I have to pay, not the lost wages.  The lost wages aren't as bad as you might think, though.  Certainly while your children are young, you have to pay for child care while both parents are working.  There are costs to sending your kids to public school also.    I think many parents who homeschool also run small businesses from home, so the lost wages isn't really an issue for them.  The intangibles you get from homeschooling far outweigh the lost wages, in my opinion.   I think I'd want to homeschool even if the public schools were good.
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RhythmStar

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2003, 08:00:25 am »

I was only thinking of the actual money I have to pay, not the lost wages.  The lost wages aren't as bad as you might think, though.  Certainly while your children are young, you have to pay for child care while both parents are working.  There are costs to sending your kids to public school also.    I think many parents who homeschool also run small businesses from home, so the lost wages isn't really an issue for them.  The intangibles you get from homeschooling far outweigh the lost wages, in my opinion.   I think I'd want to homeschool even if the public schools were good.

Fair enough.

FWIW, we are blessed with a great school just a block from home.   However, my own experience with public schools was dreadful.  If we weren't so lucky, we would be homeschooling as well.

RS
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jdavidb

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2003, 11:45:32 am »

It costs nowhere near $3000 / year to homeschool a child.

Even if you include the time of the parent(s)?

RS

As my fiance has no desire to work a paid job or have a career, one could say that the dollar cost of her time in teaching our children is zero.

However, I would say that our time is priceless. ;)
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Tracy Saboe

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Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2003, 07:30:01 pm »

Quote
As to the objections vis a vis community vs public, etc., there is no way to get to the end-point many desire on political grounds in a single stroke.  It must be a process.  Moreover, it must be a process that consists of small steps, each well thought-out  and executed, so that the process goes from success to success.

WRONG!

It's this very philosophy that allowed theRepublican party to get Hijacked by the Neo-Con's. "We're working on it." "We can't do everything all at once" and the state keeps expamding and expanding while they're "working" to make it smaller.

We need to go at complete and total abolishion of government indocternation centers, with both barrals loaded.

The Property taxes people pay for public schools also turns everybody into surfs --  Slaves to the state. By paying property taxes the government actually owns everything -- because we are forced to rent it from them!

The Free State needs to ASAP/immediately stop accepting government funds, and needs to immediately get out of local government. The state needs to also stop interfearing with local schools. The Free State also needs to practice some good old fashioned Jeffersonian principles of State nulification.

We could try to get the State to make it illegal for it's residence to pay Federal income taxes.

Or we could try to get local county or city governments to make it illegal to pay federal income taxes.

Several States have passed laws making it illegal for the Fed to enforce the Patriot act, and several have passed laws making it illegal for local, or state law enforcement to cooporate with the Federal Government in enforcing the Patriot Act.

We need to try and maybe get our local and state governments to pass simular laws about the IRS. Then people who are actually following what the law says about the income tax, won't have to put up with abuse from the IRS's missaplication of the law.

I'm sure if the Free state made it illegal for the IRS to enforce the Internal Revenue Code, force IRS agents to to get permission from both the state Legislature AND State Police, AND then get additional permission from the Local city councile AND the county Sherrif, before investigating a "Tax Abuse case", or whatever more people would be willing for the State to opt out of government State welfare.

Then all that money that would have been sent to the Fed spent on education, could be put into the Private sector in the free state.

We need to ASAP/Immediately abolish whatever State department of education there is in the Free State

Local communities/counties/towns wouldn't mind not having a State Department of Education (Or a State dept of most things), if it meant there residents would have more money for local eduation/government.

We won't eleminate public schooling entirely immediately. But we CAN immediately nulify the Federal Dept of Education, and end state interfearence in education -- putting public education under complete control of local governments.

At the local level we need to loby local governments for a $1 for $1 tax deduction off their property taxes (Or income -- depending on how public schools are finances) (Not Vouchers -- vouchers have strings) for anybody who pays for private schools/homeschooling materials/etc.

By allowing people to in this way "choose" whether or not to support their public schools or not, private versions will spring up.

Quote
Sure, a private elementary school in a rural area probably does spend half as much as a public school in the middle of a bad city neighborhood, but if you had to be able to teach students who have 40 different native languages at the private school, as well as deal with all of the other issues that inner-city schools have to face, the private school's expenses would probably shoot through the roof as well.

Exactly. If education were privatized, people could choose to go to a Spanish school, or French school, or an English schools, or whatever, and Teachers wouldn't need to work with 40 different languages. People parents would choose to sent their kids to school where the parents believe they would get the best education.

And bad neighborhoods are largely corrected by ending minimum wage laws thereby ending unemployment. And also nulifying the Federal drug prohibition laws -- which give the gangs in those inner city's the financial incentive.

Quote
) "Community Schools" -- aka charter schools, privately-sponsored, but publicly funded [Already happening, to a limited extent]

BAD. charter schools ARE government funded with vouchers, and have lots of strings attached to them.

Quote
Quote
It costs nowhere near $3000 / year to homeschool a child.

Even if you include the time of the parent(s)?

Obviously, each parent will have to figure out how much their time is worth with respect to what kind of employment they can get. But I think for the most part, homeschooling would be cheeper then private schooling, because the parent would more then likely pay most of this paycheck that he made to the private school -- thereby making it better financially for him to homoschool his kids. Now, if you made significantly more money, then the price of the school of your choice, to make it worth working and sending him to school, then private schooling would be better.

The main point is, all these decisions need to be made by individual private free people making decisions about their own lives.
 
Tracy Saboe
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