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Author Topic: computer calling?  (Read 57492 times)

Elizabeth

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2006, 03:44:11 pm »

Wow, this thread really blew up... The FSP's privacy policy has never been breached as far as I can tell; I just want to clarify that. From everything I've been told about this new operation, it seems that limited contact information was given to FSP volunteers, not to anyone outside the organization, just as we have always done for local groups, for the big calling project we did during the state vote, and for the earlier (human) calls for the F1K project, which were targeted mostly at people who had indicated on the website that they expected to move within two years.

Once the information is in the hands of volunteers, how do you control what happens to it then?  That's a violation right there.

And what about paying people to send spam robocalls?
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JasonPSorens

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2006, 03:47:43 pm »

Wow, this thread really blew up... The FSP's privacy policy has never been breached as far as I can tell; I just want to clarify that. From everything I've been told about this new operation, it seems that limited contact information was given to FSP volunteers, not to anyone outside the organization, just as we have always done for local groups, for the big calling project we did during the state vote, and for the earlier (human) calls for the F1K project, which were targeted mostly at people who had indicated on the website that they expected to move within two years.

Once the information is in the hands of volunteers, how do you control what happens to it then?  That's a violation right there.

As you know, we've always had to use volunteers when we make phone calls or emails to members. After all, we're all volunteers; there are no paid staff. The policy has always been to give only limited contact information necessary for the job at hand - in this case, just names and phone numbers. Volunteers are instructed to use the contact information only for the specific job. Beyond that, what can we do?

Quote
And what about paying people to send spam robocalls?

Maybe it's wrong to describe Mark Edge as a "volunteer"; he's an FSP member, but from what I gather, he has been paid to make these calls, simply because we didn't have enough volunteers to make all these calls.
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MengerFan

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2006, 03:48:01 pm »

OK, let's calm down again.

Friday, I will be returning my data today directly to Verrin. Mark is a reputable public figure, and I am pretty sure that he will also do so.

No one's number was sold to anyone. The recorded messages were donated by a FSP supporter. The only entity making money from those was Sprint for the long distance bill.

The only "selling" that took place was that Mark was paying a bounty to his volunteers for each verified pledge that they generated. I am unaware of the particular verification process that occurred.
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Elizabeth

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2006, 03:53:46 pm »

Wow, this thread really blew up... The FSP's privacy policy has never been breached as far as I can tell; I just want to clarify that. From everything I've been told about this new operation, it seems that limited contact information was given to FSP volunteers, not to anyone outside the organization, just as we have always done for local groups, for the big calling project we did during the state vote, and for the earlier (human) calls for the F1K project, which were targeted mostly at people who had indicated on the website that they expected to move within two years.

Once the information is in the hands of volunteers, how do you control what happens to it then?  That's a violation right there.

As you know, we've always had to use volunteers when we make phone calls or emails to members. After all, we're all volunteers; there are no paid staff. The policy has always been to give only limited contact information necessary for the job at hand - in this case, just names and phone numbers. Volunteers are instructed to use the contact information only for the specific job. Beyond that, what can we do?

I can remember a time when we agreed NOT to give out phone numbers and addresses to people, even for local groups, because we were sensitive about privacy issues.  What do you even know about these volunteers?

And what about paying people to send spam robocalls?

Maybe it's wrong to describe Mark Edge as a "volunteer"; he's an FSP member, but from what I gather, he has been paid to make these calls, simply because we didn't have enough volunteers to make all these calls.

So, yes, you sold my number.  To a robocall spammer.  Who can't even use his equipment correctly.

Since when did you lose all sense of responsibility to privacy of your members?  Or even lost the sense of good taste not to use spammers?

Rich says in this thread his group could have made more human calls - why sell my number to a spammer?
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Elizabeth

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2006, 03:55:19 pm »

OK, let's calm down again.

Friday, I will be returning my data today directly to Verrin. Mark is a reputable public figure, and I am pretty sure that he will also do so.

No one's number was sold to anyone. The recorded messages were donated by a FSP supporter. The only entity making money from those was Sprint for the long distance bill.

The only "selling" that took place was that Mark was paying a bounty to his volunteers for each verified pledge that they generated. I am unaware of the particular verification process that occurred.



"His volunteers"?  Who the hell is that?  Another layer of privacy breach?
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Elizabeth

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2006, 03:56:18 pm »

And is it true what Friday says about information still missing and/or unreturned?
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JasonPSorens

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2006, 03:57:39 pm »

Wow, this thread really blew up... The FSP's privacy policy has never been breached as far as I can tell; I just want to clarify that. From everything I've been told about this new operation, it seems that limited contact information was given to FSP volunteers, not to anyone outside the organization, just as we have always done for local groups, for the big calling project we did during the state vote, and for the earlier (human) calls for the F1K project, which were targeted mostly at people who had indicated on the website that they expected to move within two years.

Once the information is in the hands of volunteers, how do you control what happens to it then?  That's a violation right there.

As you know, we've always had to use volunteers when we make phone calls or emails to members. After all, we're all volunteers; there are no paid staff. The policy has always been to give only limited contact information necessary for the job at hand - in this case, just names and phone numbers. Volunteers are instructed to use the contact information only for the specific job. Beyond that, what can we do?

I can remember a time when we agreed NOT to give out phone numbers and addresses to people, even for local groups, because we were sensitive about privacy issues.  What do you even know about these volunteers?

My recollection conflicts with yours - we always gave contact information for FSP participants in a particular area to local group leaders, and expected them to use the information responsibly.

Quote
And what about paying people to send spam robocalls?

Maybe it's wrong to describe Mark Edge as a "volunteer"; he's an FSP member, but from what I gather, he has been paid to make these calls, simply because we didn't have enough volunteers to make all these calls.

So, yes, you sold my number.  To a robocall spammer.  Who can't even use his equipment correctly.

Since when did you lose all sense of responsibility to privacy of your members?  Or even lost the sense of good taste not to use spammers?

Rich says in this thread his group could have made more human calls - why sell my number to a spammer?

In my view, it is inaccurate to say that the number was sold. Mark was essentially hired as a contract worker for the FSP. As far as the computer calls issue goes, I'll leave the explanation of that to someone better informed (oh, Varrin...?).
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Elizabeth

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2006, 03:58:14 pm »

"The only "selling" that took place was that Mark was paying a bounty to his volunteers for each verified pledge that they generated. I am unaware of the particular verification process that occurred."

Does ANYONE in authority know?
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Elizabeth

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2006, 03:59:53 pm »

"My recollection conflicts with yours - we always gave contact information for FSP participants in a particular area to local group leaders, and expected them to use the information responsibly."

Fine, let's say I misremember.  Even so, local group leaders were well known and trusted.  Can you say the same for all the people that were given personal info for this phone bank?
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JasonPSorens

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2006, 04:01:29 pm »

"My recollection conflicts with yours - we always gave contact information for FSP participants in a particular area to local group leaders, and expected them to use the information responsibly."

Fine, let's say I misremember.  Even so, local group leaders were well known and trusted.  Can you say the same for all the people that were given personal info for this phone bank?

Mark himself is well known, although I've never met him. He's part of the FTL team, has moved to NH, etc.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Elizabeth

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2006, 04:03:16 pm »

"My recollection conflicts with yours - we always gave contact information for FSP participants in a particular area to local group leaders, and expected them to use the information responsibly."

Fine, let's say I misremember.  Even so, local group leaders were well known and trusted.  Can you say the same for all the people that were given personal info for this phone bank?

Mark himself is well known, although I've never met him. He's part of the FTL team, has moved to NH, etc.

I'm talking about all the other human volunteers.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2006, 04:06:12 pm »

"My recollection conflicts with yours - we always gave contact information for FSP participants in a particular area to local group leaders, and expected them to use the information responsibly."

Fine, let's say I misremember.  Even so, local group leaders were well known and trusted.  Can you say the same for all the people that were given personal info for this phone bank?

Mark himself is well known, although I've never met him. He's part of the FTL team, has moved to NH, etc.

I'm talking about all the other human volunteers.

Varrin and Mark would be the people to ask about that.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Elizabeth

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2006, 04:07:36 pm »

I just.... can't believe.  That the leadership has sunk so low as to approve multiple robocalls.  I'm so... disappointed.  And angry.  And ashamed.   :P
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Elizabeth

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2006, 04:08:04 pm »

"Varrin and Mark would be the people to ask about that."

Then get them over here.
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Ogre

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Re: computer calling?
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2006, 04:14:21 pm »

I really do have a nearly infinite amount of patience.  But I'm with citizen_142002 -- it's time to ignore the trolls and get back to work.  I'm going to call my brother and try and talk him into signing one more time.  And no, no one is "paying" me to do it, nor did I purchase his phone number.
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