Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[lloydbob1]

It's not like the phone calls are made on a regular basis; this was a final push for the F1k. I'm glad Mark was successful. 

We only shot the victim once.  What's he complaining about?

Libertarians are usually better at distinguishing between that which does and does not violate the ZAP/NAP, since our philosophy hinges on it. In the given case, 1-4 robocalls might be bad taste or even annoying, but nothing more.

I understand that you are looking for an acknowledgment, for someone to say, "Yes, I feel your pain, the robocalls were a horrible mistake and they will never happen again." But anecdotal evidence suggests that most of our call recipients (ostensibly libertarian activists) were pleased (pleased to see libertarian activists doing something), and very few were annoyed. This is not surprising: people do not hate robocalls per se, but robocalls combined with the purpose behind them.

The effort succeeded. Libertarians everywhere should be rejoicing. If someone is not rejoicing, I have to question his politics or his sanity. Let's get some perspective: we are in a historic struggle for *justice*, to address gross violations of human rights, and we have 9 flipping pages here of posts about a one-off spate of robocalls?

I might have been responsible for one of those pages.

[Rocketman]

Heretic!  Burn him!  There is only one true Free State Project and Jason is it's founder! 20K 1000 186 *and growing* moved for the sins of the world to Mecca The Shire so that Liberty may reign!

I sure am glad you got better, Seth.   

[Shazer]

I'm perfectly willing to give him a break, but I have a real problem with computers calling me and tying up my line.  I can't even disconnect.  This is why I came here and asked about it. 

Whether you are listening to a live person or a recording of a live person, the phone system works the same. It takes a couple seconds, not anywhere near 30, for your phone company to terminate the connection.

[Shazer]

Making a mistake is fine, but when she and I tried to talk about it here, we were both attacked on it.  No one said "gee, it might have been a mistake to do this", instead it came across as "what? We have every right to bug the crap out of you since you gave us your number!  Get forked if you don't like it."

I am pretty sure no one here would have "attacked" Elizabeth if her "complaint" was not full of bile and profanity. You cannot expect anyone to take someone like that seriously.

[FTL_Ian]

I'm perfectly willing to give him a break, but I have a real problem with computers calling me and tying up my line.  I can't even disconnect.

Talk with your phone company.  I have no trouble disconnecting robo calls.

[FTL_Ian]

I'm not going to STEP UP in response to a highly objectionable intrusive voice email.  I find your statement pretty craptastic, actually.

I find you to be pretty sad.  Is this Elizabeth's husband?

I came here politely asking about the guy and this technique, asking please not to use it, and you respond by telling me off for not stepping up to the plate and jumping to sign up after a thing like that?

I was noting that most FSPers didn't volunteer to make the calls, and doubting that you were one of the few who did.  Seems to me all you've done is complain.

I'm frankly disappointed.  I hope the rest of the first 1000 aren't as generous of spirit as you are.

*yawn*  I hope the rest of our members aren't as uppity as you and Elizabeth are.  Rest assured you'll be replaced if you decide to leave.   

[FTL_Ian]

Sorry, but I thought one of the tenets of libertarianism wasn't "the ends justify the means".  In fact, that is one of the biggest problems I have with the major parties.  They do anything they have to do to succeed, regardless of whether it's right.

It's "wrong" to call with a recorded message from another FSP member who gives you his personal cel phone number and an open invitation to call him?  You've got problems, sir.

[Shazer]

It's far more of a stretch to imagine a group of fsp volunteers selling lists of fsp member phone numbers than a telemarketing company doing so.  I could be wrong.  Do you find that fsp volunteers generally sell phone lists to third party companies?

It's one thing to trust your number to a small group of supposedly trustworthy volunteers than to trust your number to a third party telemarketing company.  I would consider telemarketing companies, and robot calling companies specifically, among the dregs of industry.  What other industry makes their money based on how intrusive they can be to people at home?

Not a LOT of other industries take money from customers expressly to contact people at home, while they are eating dinner or relaxing, simply because that's the best time to reach them.

For the record, I am not a telemarketing company. I am just a FSP volunteer who happens to be in a financial services industry, and who happens to have alot of equipment hanging around to service my customers.

As has been pointed out, this was the first time I have ever tried to use my system to launch this kind of campaign, which was why alot of people ended up getting a truncated message before the full one. Again, sorry. Believe me, it was a very expensive mistake. Take comfort that I was severely punished for the error.

I do not believe in "telemarketing" or "spamming" people. What I do believe in is getting valuable information into the hands of my customers when I believe they will find it useful and they have consented to be contacted by telephone.

In my industry, the overwhelming majority of customers prefer to deal with automated systems - recordings, interactive voice response, etc. There are a few, such as we have met here in this thread, who clearly do not prefer such interaction. To them, all we can say is, "Sorry, we will mark your number to no longer call."

[Shazer]

Also, for the record, Shazer is my (MengerFan's) wife. I just noticed she logged in while I wasn't paying attention.

[RalphBorsodi]

It's far more of a stretch to imagine a group of fsp volunteers selling lists of fsp member phone numbers than a telemarketing company doing so.  I could be wrong.  Do you find that fsp volunteers generally sell phone lists to third party companies?

It's one thing to trust your number to a small group of supposedly trustworthy volunteers than to trust your number to a third party telemarketing company.  I would consider telemarketing companies, and robot calling companies specifically, among the dregs of industry.  What other industry makes their money based on how intrusive they can be to people at home?

Not a LOT of other industries take money from customers expressly to contact people at home, while they are eating dinner or relaxing, simply because that's the best time to reach them.

For the record, I am not a telemarketing company. I am just a FSP volunteer who happens to be in a financial services industry, and who happens to have alot of equipment hanging around to service my customers.

As has been pointed out, this was the first time I have ever tried to use my system to launch this kind of campaign, which was why alot of people ended up getting a truncated message before the full one. Again, sorry. Believe me, it was a very expensive mistake. Take comfort that I was severely punished for the error.

I do not believe in "telemarketing" or "spamming" people. What I do believe in is getting valuable information into the hands of my customers when I believe they will find it useful and they have consented to be contacted by telephone.

In my industry, the overwhelming majority of customers prefer to deal with automated systems - recordings, interactive voice response, etc. There are a few, such as we have met here in this thread, who clearly do not prefer such interaction. To them, all we can say is, "Sorry, we will mark your number to no longer call."

I worked for a company who offered these automated premium calling services and there is actually quite a few advancements that could have helped.

for instance the services that we sold had the capability to detect when a live person answered the call and immediately would transfer to a live agent (in this way it acted just like a predictive dialer...it could also moderate the number of outgoing calls based on the number of live agents ready to receive transfers) and if no one picked up the phone a personal message would be left on voicemail (inserting the person's name) that you could not tell was a recording

"hello Elizabeth this is Jason callling from the FSP, just wanted to ask you a question about x - could you call me back at 603-xxx-xxxx"

[MengerFan]

That would have been the best, but I don't think anyone wants my employees talking to people about the FSP.

[Soundwave]

It's not like the phone calls are made on a regular basis; this was a final push for the F1k. I'm glad Mark was successful. 

We only shot the victim once.  What's he complaining about?

That comparison is just absurd.

[RalphBorsodi]

That would have been the best, but I don't think anyone wants my employees talking to people about the FSP.

with VOIP you can direct the transfer to any number you want...

[nobanana]

It's harder to address real questions and issues about...people paid to get signups...

You have to be kidding.  You have a problem with the FSP doing marketing???  Um, marketing…to its OWN members.  Wow.

Hey, wake up.  You're gonna hear my message on your phone whether you want to or not. It's gonna take 30 seconds of your time but you have to hear it whether you want to or not.

Let me get this strait…you find it offensive that the FSP, a movement that you joined and supposedly support, took 30 seconds of your time??   30 seconds.  You also must be kidding.  What do you think we are doing, selling cutlery?  This is not cold-calling we are talking about….but calls TO OUR OWN MEMBERS…people that support our cause.

If either of you expects the FSP to refrain from contacting its own members, then you either have a very large bug up your ass that needs surgical intervention, or you are two oars short of a row boat.

I said it already but your skull seems to be too think to get through.  I don't mind the fsp contacting me.  I mind being robot called.

Are both your parents retarded too or is it a recessive gene you got from each?

[nobanana]

It's not like the phone calls are made on a regular basis; this was a final push for the F1k. I'm glad Mark was successful. 

We only shot the victim once.  What's he complaining about?

Libertarians are usually better at distinguishing between that which does and does not violate the ZAP/NAP, since our philosophy hinges on it. In the given case, 1-4 robocalls might be bad taste or even annoying, but nothing more.

I understand that you are looking for an acknowledgment, for someone to say, "Yes, I feel your pain, the robocalls were a horrible mistake and they will never happen again." But anecdotal evidence suggests that most of our call recipients (ostensibly libertarian activists) were pleased (pleased to see libertarian activists doing something), and very few were annoyed. This is not surprising: people do not hate robocalls per se, but robocalls combined with the purpose behind them.

The effort succeeded. Libertarians everywhere should be rejoicing. If someone is not rejoicing, I have to question his politics or his sanity. Let's get some perspective: we are in a historic struggle for *justice*, to address gross violations of human rights, and we have 9 flipping pages here of posts about a one-off spate of robocalls?

No, I'm not looking for an acknowledgement, at least not any longer.

I came here asking about it politely, and I've since seen little but personal attacks and bashing for my trouble.

Doing something wrong for the right reasons is wrong.  The fsp might have had a valid purpose to do something, but the means does NOT justify the ends.  If the FSP believes it does, it's wrong.

I'm still here partly to defend myself against the bashers that seem to religiously believe in the fsp leadership, and to see whether the fsp leadership does actually believe doing something wrong with good intentions is acceptable.

Ok, I'm still here more because some idiots have picked a flamewar fight with me for no logical reason.  The other stuff is just added spice.

Just for the record, people DO hate robot calls specifically, regardless of the purpose behind them.  Are you not aware of the push to outlaw these things?