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Author Topic: TAXES!!!  (Read 20998 times)

Crocuta

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2007, 01:31:23 pm »

Form a neighborhood association and ask the town to cede to the roads to the group.

But you couldn't pay me to live in a community with a neighborhood association unless the bylaws were very narrowly constructed.  Some of those groups are worse than dealing with government building departments!
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Gabriel

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2007, 10:15:53 pm »

I'm in a town full of private roads, and there isn't a tollbooth every block. The "roads" issue is mostly a non-issue.

That's only possible in new developments, though, where a developer owns the roads. How do you privatize roads in a neighborhood that's already built & occupied?

Why do we have to invent a solution? Advise the residents that their taxes are being reduced and that the roads will no longer be maintained; let them decide how to handle it.
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Batty

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2007, 04:18:08 pm »

Hi everyone.  I found this site today and am still trying to sift through all the information.  I think it's great that people are creating something like this.  I find this a facinating topic and a thought occured to me.  Let's say that I was incredibly rich and had enough money to purchase every road in the state.  I would of course put up toll booths here and there to offset maintainance costs, etc.  Then one day I decided that for my mother's birthday it would be a nice tribute to close all roads for 24 hours.  Mother always hated long car trips.  Then on the following week I decided that for my father's birthday it would be nice to triple tolls for 24 hours.  Father always liked money.  My question is this: If I was prevented from doing these things, it seems that I would be deprived of a measure of liberty.  They are after all my roads.  I payed for them, I maintain them, they're my property.  But if I wasn't prevented from doing this then i'd be depriving a large group of people of a fair measure of their liberty.  Who am I to say when people should be able to travel?  How would you think something like this should be resolved?
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error

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2007, 05:24:56 pm »

That's easy. You can't stop someone else from building their own roads.
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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2007, 05:25:33 pm »

Not to mention, you couldn't buy all the roads anyway. People would start refusing to sell to you.
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Felix Benner

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2007, 05:37:32 pm »

Hi everyone.  I found this site today and am still trying to sift through all the information.  I think it's great that people are creating something like this.  I find this a facinating topic and a thought occured to me.  Let's say that I was incredibly rich and had enough money to purchase every road in the state.  I would of course put up toll booths here and there to offset maintainance costs, etc.  Then one day I decided that for my mother's birthday it would be a nice tribute to close all roads for 24 hours.  Mother always hated long car trips.  Then on the following week I decided that for my father's birthday it would be nice to triple tolls for 24 hours.  Father always liked money.  My question is this: If I was prevented from doing these things, it seems that I would be deprived of a measure of liberty.  They are after all my roads.  I payed for them, I maintain them, they're my property.  But if I wasn't prevented from doing this then i'd be depriving a large group of people of a fair measure of their liberty.  Who am I to say when people should be able to travel?  How would you think something like this should be resolved?

Let's say that I was incredibly rich and I would offer every single man and women the tripple of their current wage if they were working for me. And when they all agree I'd tell them to do something totally worthless. Now although I'd pay them the tripple of their previous wages there would be no goods produced that they could buy with their money. So everybody would just starve to death. How would you think something like this should be resolved?
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garthwaited

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2007, 11:58:46 pm »

I still don't see how neighborhood roads could be privatized in the traditional sense

You have to expand your imagination to miles of very bumpy, rutty, dirt road. Nothing wrong with them, really.

In my corner of the universe, if only one side of the street is populated, the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations has been very reluctant to maintain the roads.  Guess why?  Profitability.  It is thus easy for me to see that similarly Private Roads would be lesser maintained in those areas more sparsely populated.  What else would make sense.

People immediately cling to THE ROADS, but what if they started thinking of THE POLES, or more specifically, THE CABLE TV!  What is more technologically infeasable?  Universal private dedicated internet and digital HDTV access, or tamped asphalt?  Yet no one is yet screaming for government furnished porn distribution.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 12:00:43 am by garthwaited »
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LibertyforLife

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2007, 12:25:34 am »

I don't want government to maintain the roads, if it means they have to steal from me to do it. Personally I don't want the government to build or maintain the roads, or buy, maintain, or use equipment for such a purpose. Its not the role of government to provide 'services'.

Like all things if you can't do it yourself, you hire someone who has the experience or knowledge to do it for you. The government should hire a third party(shouldn't it really be second party?) to build and maintain the roads. If you chooses not to, then I want to legally help to maintain the roads I use and not worry about going to jail for trying to do so. I don't want to charge people to use the roads I maintain. I'm not apposed to people making money, I make money, but not at the expense of others trying to exercise their rights.

Oh, and get your damn hands out of my pockets, government, before I cut them off.

Forrest
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KBCraig

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2007, 02:49:01 am »

On one of my favorite gun forums, the topic of roads came up recently. I argued against all eminent domain.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_Forum/viewtopic.php?p=68456#68456

Kevin
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LibertyforLife

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2007, 09:56:45 am »

Personally I want the State government to have the power of eminent domain, so long as the people control it and not the government.

How else are we going to be able to kick the Federal Government out of New Hampshire. I for one want to see what happens when the State tells the Federal Government that its taking back all the land given to it previously. I think that would be justice.

'If you can't act responsibly, then get out of my state Federal Government.'

Forrest
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CA_Libertarian

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2007, 03:16:23 am »

I grew up on a privately owned road.  The road was only one block long, was dirt and gravel, and provided access to about 7 houses and a roofing company's storage lot.  All the surrounding roads were publicly owned and maintained.

Our road was graded once per year to keep the ruts out, and to make sure it drained properly.  It was a little dusty, but it worked just as well as the paved roads... for a fraction of the cost.
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lloydbob1

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2007, 07:53:14 am »

Hi everyone.  I found this site today and am still trying to sift through all the information.  I think it's great that people are creating something like this.  I find this a facinating topic and a thought occured to me.  Let's say that I was incredibly rich and had enough money to purchase every road in the state.  I would of course put up toll booths here and there to offset maintainance costs, etc.  Then one day I decided that for my mother's birthday it would be a nice tribute to close all roads for 24 hours.  Mother always hated long car trips.  Then on the following week I decided that for my father's birthday it would be nice to triple tolls for 24 hours.  Father always liked money.  My question is this: If I was prevented from doing these things, it seems that I would be deprived of a measure of liberty.  They are after all my roads.  I payed for them, I maintain them, they're my property.  But if I wasn't prevented from doing this then i'd be depriving a large group of people of a fair measure of their liberty.  Who am I to say when people should be able to travel?  How would you think something like this should be resolved?

Let's say that I was incredibly rich and I would offer every single man and women the tripple of their current wage if they were working for me. And when they all agree I'd tell them to do something totally worthless. Now although I'd pay them the tripple of their previous wages there would be no goods produced that they could buy with their money. So everybody would just starve to death. How would you think something like this should be resolved?

Getting a smarter population?
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lasse

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2007, 08:08:34 am »

Hi everyone.  I found this site today and am still trying to sift through all the information.  I think it's great that people are creating something like this.  I find this a facinating topic and a thought occured to me.  Let's say that I was incredibly rich and had enough money to purchase every road in the state.  I would of course put up toll booths here and there to offset maintainance costs, etc.  Then one day I decided that for my mother's birthday it would be a nice tribute to close all roads for 24 hours.  Mother always hated long car trips.  Then on the following week I decided that for my father's birthday it would be nice to triple tolls for 24 hours.  Father always liked money.  My question is this: If I was prevented from doing these things, it seems that I would be deprived of a measure of liberty.  They are after all my roads.  I payed for them, I maintain them, they're my property.  But if I wasn't prevented from doing this then i'd be depriving a large group of people of a fair measure of their liberty.  Who am I to say when people should be able to travel?  How would you think something like this should be resolved?

Let's say that I was incredibly rich and I would offer every single man and women the tripple of their current wage if they were working for me. And when they all agree I'd tell them to do something totally worthless. Now although I'd pay them the tripple of their previous wages there would be no goods produced that they could buy with their money. So everybody would just starve to death. How would you think something like this should be resolved?
You couldn't sustain that long enough to let a single person starve before you'd have to make profits in order to continue paying the way you do. Not to mention that you wouldn't get enough persons to agree to that in the first place.
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dalebert

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2007, 09:19:41 pm »

I love when people like to make comparison to things the government is handling right now and how effed up they are, like the DMV. We don't want the government to handle healthcare. Look at the DMV! And then the very same people turn right around and say "but there are some things the government MUST handle because they're too important, like roads and national defense."  :o How do people make that amazing leap of logic?

The other ridiculous argument is pointing out the many potential problems that could exist in a market version of something the government runs now, like roads. But what about the problems we have now? Our country is arguably one of the most free in the world. Yet look at how much destruction has become of our engorged military. Look at how must damage our tax system has caused, including the massive chunk justified for the building of roads and other "public" property.

We have all kinds of problems to work out with a large and diverse population trying to live together and it will never be perfect. There will always be crime, fraud, attempts to exploit people. Creating an arbitrary authority and using aggressive force against innocent people right from the start is NEVER the way to solve those problems. A truly free society will always have the disputes to work out and there will even be violence, but violence will be a lot less common in a society where a select group of people hasn't been given the power to use violence arbitrarily and with an elaborate system of justifications for preemptive force that protect them from the consequences the most free people would face for the same violent acts.

We all believe private charity works better than welfare, don't we? Why do you think that is? Imagine how likely the Iraq war would have been if Bush had to pass a hat for funds. Would it have happened? I don't think so and I see that as an advantage of a free market defense.

We're libertarians. We know the government effs things up. So the next time you find yourself thinking there is something so important that the government must handle it, back up for a moment and rethink that.

dalebert

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Re: TAXES!!!
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2007, 10:00:24 pm »

Many mass transit systems were purcahsed by the car companies and dismantled.

That begs the question of just how profitable they were. If there's real potential to make profit off them, then selfish greedy car companies would be nuts to dismantle them once they owned all that infrastructure. For that matter, why didn't someone else outbid them so they could make money off them? Profitability is based on TRUE cost versus demand and so is a pretty good indicator of how badly something is desired and therefore, whether it deserves to exist. People are willing to spend money for the convenience of cars. Their time had come.

Without even doing any research (I admit it), I doubt there is any large scale public transit system today that isn't massively subsidized. The real cost is hidden from us. I don't use them much because they suck but I'm still paying for them. That disturbs me a lot more than the car companies buying something with their own money and dismantling it. Government is about a select group of elites making arbitrary decisions for the rest of us and forcing those decisions on us. That's worse than the potential for someone to make business decisions with their own property that some of us don't like. If government would just quit meddling, I bet there would be better transit systems already with advances in technology. Some are being developed despite interference from government, but I bet they could have happened a lot sooner. Gas prices, congestion, and just general environmental guilt will push the market if the government will stop effing things up.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2007, 10:06:54 pm by dalebert »
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