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Author Topic: Pledge of allegience ban?  (Read 16302 times)

outlaw4freedom

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Re: Pledge of allegience ban?
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2007, 08:17:31 pm »

I won't ban you're right to say the pledge,

if you don't ban my right not to say it.
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tom ploszaj

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Re: Pledge of allegience ban?
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2007, 08:57:14 pm »

I have used Barry Gold's pledge in place of the one to a flag.

Pledge of Allegiance
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of
America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all.
-- Barry Gold
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yoplait

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Re: Pledge of allegience ban?
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2007, 10:53:27 pm »

I have used Barry Gold's pledge in place of the one to a flag.

Pledge of Allegiance
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of
America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all.
-- Barry Gold


What if you someday think this gov't has become to tyrannical and try to overthrow it (and with it, the Constitution?)

Keyser Soce

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Re: Pledge of allegience ban?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2007, 12:13:37 am »

I wouldnt' take that pledge though I'd put changing it at the bottom of a very long list.
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"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain

LibertyforLife

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Re: Pledge of allegience ban?
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2007, 10:15:49 am »

Interesting point that yoplait makes. I for one, owe an allegiance to no one whom I have not entered into contract with.

I've heard Marc Stevens from Adventures in Legal Land quote the following. That at the time of the ratification of the US Constitution some 3 million people were in the colonies. That of those 3 million only some 15,000 were eligible to vote. Of those only some 7000-9000 actually voted, and of those only 51 percent actually voted in favor.

I also would like to draw your attention to the Articles of Confederation, the predecessor to the US Constitution. The US Constitution required only 3/4ths of the States to ratify it, the Articles of Confederation required all of the States to repeal it. The US Constitution could never be ratified because the Articles of Confederation were never repealed by the legislatures of the various States united. Further on top of that those who did sign the US Constitution were never authorized by the legislatures  of the various States united to sign said Constitution.

To quote Weird Al Yankovic, 'everything you know is wrong'. Its a shocker to the system to be sure. I'm shocked to what I have heard. I've lost all the reverence for the Constitution and the founding fathers, which actually only lends more power to my want of a fully voluntary society.
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djlong

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Re: Pledge of allegience ban?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2008, 07:51:40 pm »

Just to clarify something about the Articles of Confederation.

Article XIII says that the articles are pepetual - "unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State."

That was the process of the ratification of the Constitution.  Once the Constitution was ratified by *all* 13 states, it superseded the Articles.
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J’raxis 270145

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    • Jeremy J. Olson
Re: Pledge of allegience ban?
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2008, 01:43:36 am »

Just to clarify something about the Articles of Confederation.

Article XIII says that the articles are pepetual - "unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State."

That was the process of the ratification of the Constitution.  Once the Constitution was ratified by *all* 13 states, it superseded the Articles.

The Articles weren’t replaced, though—in the 1860s the fedgov was pointing to the “perpetual union” part of the Articles as justification for forcing the seceding States back into the Union. It also means that the fedgov was operating illegally from the time period when nine States had ratified the Constitution (the time at which they claimed it went into force) until all thirteen did.
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Jitgos

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Re: Pledge of allegience ban?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2008, 07:23:49 am »

I spent my entire childhood refusing to say the Pledge in school, and I don't think that was a mistake.  My allegiance is to the Constitution, not to a piece of cloth.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in the 1950s, wasn't it?

So your allegiance is to a piece of paper instead of a piece of cloth? I used to be in the same boat, but now realize that's ridiculous too. The Constitution has failed miserably.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Pledge of allegience ban?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2008, 07:52:55 am »

The US Constitution is a treaty signifying an Union of social entities... only the BoR deals with the individual.
The US Flag is a symbol of that Union... with the Pledge just reinforcing the Union contract.

Think about the words... 'With liberty and justice for all.' That is an ideal, not reality.

Jeremy, point well taken... but even then the reaffirmation of it during the secession from the Union of southern States would signify that it must legally still be active beyond the ratification of the US Constitution. American jurisprudence seems to hold ideals with little merit.
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