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Author Topic: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible  (Read 10595 times)

thegotoguy

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avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« on: July 03, 2006, 10:34:58 am »

o.k., we all know Real ID sucks.  It's a waste of time and money, as well as an invasion of privacy and a slap in the face to individual liberty.

SO- in the spirit of Harry Browne's How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World, what are we going to do to avoid this law?  Obviously, beating our chest and trying to get it overturned is an indirect alternative that we should be involved with, but what direct alternatives will you be using?

I, for one, will see to it that the image that goes into the database at DMV looks nothing like me.  My driver's license comes up for renewal in November.  I normally have short hair, but I'm growing it long just for my driver's license photo.  I'm also not going to shave for about a month before the picture, so that I go in looking like Grizzly Adams.  I might dress up like a biker or an indian chief or something, as well.  I might shave my eyebrows off.  I might get a friend to punch me in the face and give me a black eye.  All I know is, if they're going to put a picture of me in a database, it's going to look nothing like me.

Can anyone else think of anything else we can do to muck up the system?  I normally don't get involved (publicly) in such acts of civil disobediance, but this is pretty important and I think it merits discussion.
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Denis Goddard

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2006, 10:50:41 am »

Other ideas:
* Sign the No National ID pledge: http://www.pledgebank.com/NationalID
* Sign the NH No National ID pledge: http://www.pledgebank.com/NoNHREALID
* Best option: make sure we don't need to use CD at all, and help us opt the entire state of NH out of the real-ID system !!!!

HB 1582 is dead, but the spirit is not. You can be damn sure Neal Kurk will submit similar legislation this coming session. Be sure and support his re-election campaign!

If you already live in NH, you can take a much more proactive step by contacting the 5 members of the Executive Committee and telling them you do not want them to take the $3million fderal bribe to implement real-ID. Their contact info and other details can be found at:
http://forum.nhfree.com/index.php?topic=3865.0
« Last Edit: July 03, 2006, 10:53:01 am by Denis Goddard »
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JasonPSorens

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2006, 11:22:04 am »

I won't accept it. If necessary, I'll use my passport for identification and just drive very, very carefully.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

thegotoguy

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2006, 12:06:33 pm »

I've considered doing that, as well.  However, no matter how carefully you drive, there's always a chance that someone else will hit you through no fault of your own.  Then, the consequences will clearly outweight the benefits of taking your civil disobedience that far.

I've thought about not renewing my license and trying to figure out way to avoid driving except for extreme circumstances (medical emergencies) but that's unpractical as well.

Does anyone know of any religious exemptions to the photo requirement?  I could be persuaded to join a religion that forbids being photographed if the exemption exists.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2006, 12:20:51 pm »

I'm actually less worried about the photograph than the RFID chip likely to be required, and the requirement that the DMV maintain copies of your birth certificate and SS card. Are we just begging crooks to steal our identities, or what?
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

thegotoguy

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2006, 12:38:22 pm »

I hear you.  I haven't gotten the renewal instructions for NJ yet, but I think we can use our passport and marriage license, as well as our birth certificate and SS card.  NJ DMV already has our SS# on file, so that won't be a quantum change for us anyway.

I'm still debating how I'm going to handle this.  I know for damn sure I'm not just going to sleepwalk into the DMV like the rest of these idiots and show them my papers.  I just haven't decided how far I want to take it.

Does anyone know how difficult it is for a US citizen to get an internationaly driver's license through the (eeek) UN?  My wife had one when she first came here from Poland, and she was actually pulled over a couple of times and the cops didn't know what the hell it was.

They let her go with warnings because she's so damned cute (and they were probably confused) but that may be a way to go for the rest of us.  Since my wife is Polish, I could qualify for Polish (and therefore EU) citizenship, get a foreign passport and an international drivers' license.  This, however, is complicated and would require me to be in Poland for probably a year or more.  Does anyone know of an easier way to get one?
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Denis Goddard

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2006, 01:52:10 pm »

Does anyone know of any religious exemptions to the photo requirement?  I could be persuaded to join a religion that forbids being photographed if the exemption exists.
Funny you mention it... I was thinking along similar lines.
The questions, of course, are whether it being your religion would matter at all, and if so, by exactly how much would it matter.
That's how the Supreme Court has been dealing with the issue, at least.

For this and several other reasons I've been thinking about submitting an LSR for similar legsilation to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (analysis, book), but of course applicable only to NH.

Thoughts?
Would this finally be enticing enough a reason to get the Sorens family to move themselves to NH?? ;D

Denis Goddard

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2006, 02:00:54 pm »

Does anyone know how difficult it is for a US citizen to get an internationaly driver's license through the (eeek) UN?
Again, this seems like more work to me than just working to get the damn law changed.

But that's probably just because of the high I'm on, what with the smoking ban that won't happen, and (to use Don Gorman's analysis) the fact that we fought the federal government to a standstill on Real-ID.   ;D
« Last Edit: July 03, 2006, 02:06:41 pm by Denis Goddard »
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thegotoguy

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2006, 02:03:40 pm »

Here's an article from bankrate.com regarding international driver's license scams (in case anyone is thinking of going that route):

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/advice/scams/license.asp

I think if you have dual citizenship or foreign citizenship, this is probably the way to go.  For US citizens, it's probably more trouble than it's worth because you'd have to establish foreign citizenship in order to drive on an IDP in the US (as I suspected).

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JasonPSorens

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2006, 05:01:14 pm »

Would this finally be enticing enough a reason to get the Sorens family to move themselves to NH?? ;D

Possibly. My academic career has been my life's dream and my life's work (you don't go to school for 9 years for something just to give it up lightly), but to participate in something historic & escape the unconscionable could entice me to do just that, if the wife goes along w/ it.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

thegotoguy

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2006, 05:23:00 pm »

Would this finally be enticing enough a reason to get the Sorens family to move themselves to NH?? ;D

.... if the wife goes along w/ it.

I'd have moved to NH 3 years ago if it wasn't for this little problem. 

I'm guessing this is a problem for a lot of us.
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Dave Mincin

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2006, 05:43:29 pm »

Would this finally be enticing enough a reason to get the Sorens family to move themselves to NH?? ;D

Possibly. My academic career has been my life's dream and my life's work (you don't go to school for 9 years for something just to give it up lightly), but to participate in something historic & escape the unconscionable could entice me to do just that, if the wife goes along w/ it.

Jason...thinking now, you really have the bug....and trust me on this, it doesn't go way, only grows.

Remember there is also a dream...in progress in NH! :)
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JasonPSorens

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2006, 06:05:34 pm »

Would this finally be enticing enough a reason to get the Sorens family to move themselves to NH?? ;D

Possibly. My academic career has been my life's dream and my life's work (you don't go to school for 9 years for something just to give it up lightly), but to participate in something historic & escape the unconscionable could entice me to do just that, if the wife goes along w/ it.

Jason...thinking now, you really have the bug....and trust me on this, it doesn't go way, only grows.

Remember there is also a dream...in progress in NH! :)

Well, of course I have the bug! I've had it since approximately July 2001. ;) I do think I can do more for liberty in academia than outside it (doing an office job or something). But if things get bad enough...
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Denis Goddard

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2006, 07:47:37 pm »

But if things get bad enough...

My question was specifically if pasasage of the RFRA would make NH Good enough to move here.

This is a State where you will find yourself thinking in optimistic terms, the natural result of scoring real victories!

JasonPSorens

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Re: avoiding Real ID - as much as possible
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2006, 08:45:25 pm »

But if things get bad enough...

My question was specifically if pasasage of the RFRA would make NH Good enough to move here.

This is a State where you will find yourself thinking in optimistic terms, the natural result of scoring real victories!


Yeah, here in NY I'm so used to thinking of things getting "bad enough." And they will, sooner or later.  :-\
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism
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