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Author Topic: How much can 20,000 do?  (Read 10471 times)

SirMatthew1986

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How much can 20,000 do?
« on: June 05, 2006, 12:44:35 am »

My greatest concern is that committing to the Project is that I'm not sure how much we could really do. If we were all clustered together, a Free City would seem reasonable. But 20,000 in a state with a population of over a million? I mean, I don't see all that much political change occurring in a state with an influx of liberty-minded people who make up less than 2% of the population. I'm excited about the idea and would love to be convinced otherwise.
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Kalnik

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2006, 05:55:11 am »

A little over 400 are already over there now.  It has had some impact already.  Some of the freestaters up there are tinkering with ways to get their dependency off of the federal government, whether it be by any taxes, currency, and so forth.  They are even showing up at local and state meetings.  Remember, just because the state has over a million, doesn't mean that every single one of them participate politically. 
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sandm000

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2006, 07:00:34 am »

Remember that of the 1,300,000 people in the state about 25% aren't old enough to vote, and of the remaining ~900,000 only  683,672 turned out to vote in 2004, so in reality we would be more like 3% of the voting bloc!

And that 400 who moved already have been going around causing a stir and generally getting the message of liberty heard. Which means that those people may not join our project, but we hope that their minds are changing in the direction of more freedom for themselves, which in turn means more freedom for us.

That is why 20,000 activists are moving, not just 20,000 people.

So, in conclusion the 400 people there have been doing a great job promoting liberty. Just imagine what 50 times as many people would be able to do.
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Morey

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cathleeninnh

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2006, 10:05:48 am »

I don't know what 20,000 can do. I can see what 400 are doing. But even if we are outnumbered, the excitement and constant activity is overwhelming. We have been here two years this week! I have never felt so free. Living and socialising and working among people who understand and agree with your principles is better than any other option we had. Among the general public here, there are only pockets of bold socialist/statist sentiment. The vast majority of people are individualistic and accepting of libertarian principles. 

It always boils down to weighing the options. What benefits are there to not moving? Every day you stay in your current situation is a choice. Was it the very best choice today? Is your future there likely to be the better future? Do you have peace of mind and know that you are living the freest life possible?

Cathleen
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Denis Goddard

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2006, 01:20:49 pm »

I have said many times before, and probably will many more times, that in my opinion 20,000 is ridiculous OVERKILL for the goals of the Free State Project.

I have been in NH for almost exactly 1 year now. With the small number of people that we have, we are already effecting real, measurable change:

We already have people elected in Local government; this November, the very first of the Early-movers will have been in-state for 2 years, the minimum time requred to run for the State Legislature. I personally know of eight Free-Staters running for House membership. You can be sure those people are running excellent campaigns, and have a decent shot of winning, thanks in part to the training provided by the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance

In my opinion, we don't need 20,000 people.
We don't really even need 1,000 people.
Based on what I've seen in the past 12 months, I believe we can turn New Hampshire into the Freest state -- on every issue -- with just 300-500 more people, if (and this is very important) those people are willing to engage in the political process, write Letters to the Editor, testify before the Legislature (which anyone is allowed to do, though very few actually do), and run for office.

We will then see a "tipping point" phenomenon, where Libertarians and small-government Republicans flock to NH in droves -- FSP or no FSP.

All we need are a few hundred articulate, motivated people who are willing to engage the process.

That's my $0.02

Dreepa

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2006, 08:41:34 am »

To sum up what Denis and Cathleen are saying:

MOVE NOW!


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citizen_142002

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2006, 05:20:28 pm »

As a native, I can say that the first 400 have infused a great deal of energy and man power into freedom friendly movements, and they really have made the difference on issues like the smoking ban already.

To reach its goals the FSP will need more than 400, and I believe it will take more than a few hundred more activists. But 20K IS more than enough. I am hoping that the First 1000 succeeds, because with about 2.5 times the people in New Hampshire, I think it will become obvious that 20 or even 10 thousand activists can acheive what we hope for.

Anyway, I believe that New Hampshire is the best place to make a stand for freedom already.
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Forastero

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2006, 01:49:29 pm »

Yeah I agree, 20,000 may be overkill, it seems the 400 that are already there are making some impact, even if its just alittle. Man I cant wait to move to NH!
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2006, 08:15:04 pm »

SirMathew,

The 420 activists include about 170 movers, who are doing a tremendous amount of work each election cycle.  If you are interested in seeing what impact is being seen in high concentrations,  Manchester, Dover, Keene, and a couple of other towns already have plenty of freestaters, and all are seeing further migrations there.

Statewide, we've gotten rid of about a dozen anti-liberty pols (including one or two who dropped out because they didn't want to face the competition).  We've helped to elect about as many proliberty types, and will have a few freestaters in the state house (knock on wood) by January.

We've identified most of the bad pols at the state level, killed the smoking ban, outted a number of tax and spenders,  and passed a bill making it easier to homeschool.

That's with only 420 people.  We are learning quickly what works, and how to attract more activists outside of the fsp--not only from out of state, but from in state.  Most of the people we are now networking with are from in state.  I would say that we have about 2,000 activists working toward smaller government right now.  It wouldn't take much to attract even more movers, and to activate even more natives.

Bottom line:

MOVE HERE NOW!
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"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."

ticktockclok

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2007, 09:31:41 pm »

It's kind of funny. I see this whole thing as a game of United States Risk where the evil giant who rules the US, with his horses and cannons throughout, is sitting content while a tiny rebel army trys to take back a small province and start a domino effect. I see most everything in weird pictures; this is another one.

EDIT: whoops, didn't notice the post dates on these things
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lowen

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2007, 09:44:39 pm »

Reading all of this, shouldn't the Project's aim be to move 1000 freestaters to the 20 most viable states instead?
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2007, 10:16:05 pm »

It's kind of funny. I see this whole thing as a game of United States Risk where the evil giant who rules the US, with his horses and cannons throughout, is sitting content while a tiny rebel army trys to take back a small province and start a domino effect. I see most everything in weird pictures; this is another one.

EDIT: whoops, didn't notice the post dates on these things

I haven’t been worrying about replying to old posts, and so far no one’s yelled at me for it. ;D I’ve resuscitated a few old but interesting threads this way.

The design of this particular forum software seems to encourage it. Blogging software and sites like Slashdot and Fark are designed where the thread/“article” as a whole moves downward as it ages, and it eventually falls off the front page and into archive purgatory. But whenever you reply to a thread here, the individual post itself shows up in the top-five list at the bottom of the main page, and it pushes the thread back to the top of its board so it can be seen again. Even the software around here seems to be libertarian-minded.
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Ward Griffiths

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2007, 07:49:30 am »

Reading all of this, shouldn't the Project's aim be to move 1000 freestaters to the 20 most viable states instead?

The Project's aim is to concentrate freedom-minded individuals in one area where we can make a difference.  We're already scattered all over the place, in locales where we make up a microscopic percentage, which is one of the big reasons nothing has been working anywhere.

And I don't count more than four or five other states to be even remotely viable in the forseeable future even after New Hampshire demonstrates the benefits of a free society.
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: How much can 20,000 do?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2007, 09:40:42 pm »

Reading all of this, shouldn't the Project's aim be to move 1000 freestaters to the 20 most viable states instead?

The Project's aim is to concentrate freedom-minded individuals in one area where we can make a difference.  We're already scattered all over the place, in locales where we make up a microscopic percentage, which is one of the big reasons nothing has been working anywhere.

And I don't count more than four or five other states to be even remotely viable in the forseeable future even after New Hampshire demonstrates the benefits of a free society.


If we were to work on other states, we could just work down the original list of states the FSP had before the vote was taken.
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