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Author Topic: Making your own coins  (Read 9292 times)

brontus

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Making your own coins
« on: April 26, 2006, 08:33:35 pm »

Does anyone have any information on silver casting or other coin-making methods?  I live the idea of an alternate currency like the Liberty Dollar, but I don't like the Liberty Dollar's selling of their coins at a face value higher than their intrinsic worth.  So I'd like to try my hand at making my own silver coins
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Roycerson

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2006, 09:33:24 pm »

You have to sell them higher than their intrinsic worth if you want to pay for the time, equipment, shipping etc. that would be necessary.  Their profit margin does seem a bit high though.  By "a bit" I mean rediculously.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 10:08:20 pm by Roycerson »
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sandm000

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2006, 07:24:06 am »

this page has some good pictures of the equipment involved.
And this one has EVERYTHING you need for smacking out your very own coins at home with a sledghammer and an anvil (Talk about low overhead!) :)
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brontus

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2006, 09:57:51 am »

You have to sell them higher than their intrinsic worth if you want to pay for the time, equipment, shipping etc. that would be necessary.  Their profit margin does seem a bit high though.  By "a bit" I mean rediculously.

The problem then is than the money holder looses money in the exchange.  If I say 1 Antro is worth $10 USD, but it only contains $9 worth of silver, I'm creating a fiction that my coin is worth more than it is, a fiction that can be maintained only by those who believe in it.  As soon as you encounter someone who will not maintain that fiction, your money is instantly devalued.


What I would want to do is subsidize the cost of making the coins through other business ventures.
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Keti

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2006, 11:24:16 am »

Buy silver when it hits a low, make the coins, sell them for as little more as is possible, then chances are the price will bounce back up eventually to cover the cost. Or will this not work?
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Power Penguin

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2006, 01:04:26 am »

I saw some how-to on some web site a few years ago that showed how you can make a metal forge out of a microwave. You can do aluminum and pot-metal. What temp does it take to melt gold and/or silver?
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sandm000

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2006, 07:21:22 am »

I saw some how-to on some web site a few years ago that showed how you can make a metal forge out of a microwave. You can do aluminum and pot-metal. What temp does it take to melt gold and/or silver?
Perhaps this is the site?
Melting point of Gold 1063'C
Silver 961'C

David Reid claims he can get the microwave up to 1200'C, so it looks as though you could indeed do casting at home!
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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2006, 02:01:34 am »

Cool does someone want to try this and see if it works?
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KBCraig

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2006, 10:25:51 pm »

Coins are forged, not cast.

The value of silver and gold for coinage comes largely from their malleability. Weigh out a coin's worth, put it in a die, and smack the heck out of it.

Kevin
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pstudier

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2006, 11:55:03 pm »

Why not contract with a private mint?  The Liberty Dollar people probably don't actually make their own coins.

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Mike Lorrey

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2006, 12:29:39 am »

You have to sell them higher than their intrinsic worth if you want to pay for the time, equipment, shipping etc. that would be necessary.  Their profit margin does seem a bit high though.  By "a bit" I mean rediculously.

Actually, if you read the Coinage Act of 1792, the silver content of the first Dollars were significantly less than a dollars worth of actual silver. It specced 371 4/16ths grains (24.1 grams) of pure silver or 416 grains of standard silver. Silver prices fluctuated from 1792 to 1886 between $1 to  $1.29 per ounce, and while the silver content of a lawful dollar was ~0.85 ounces, or about .78 troy ounces. Ergo, Bernard is providing a coin of greater value than an official silver dollar under the original Coinage Act. Yes, he is stamping $20.00 on that coin, but looking at any inflation calculator online shows that $1 in 1913 is worth more than $20.13 today. So his pricing remains consistent with historical developments, and his coins are of superior value to original lawful US Silver Dollars. They should, therefore, be actually sold for $25.80 FRN or thereabouts. Buying them at $20 is a deal, and getting them for less than that is a steal you should take advantage of (particularly if you can get them in mint condition, seal them up in those plastic coin collectors thingies and get as much as $40 or $50 for them).

Prior to this, back to the 17th century era of Free Minting, when one could bring metal to the royal mint and get coin back, the person paid "quoinage", which was a fee to the King for the service of assaying the metal and stamping the coins. This generally ran to about 5-10% of the value of the metal, but then again the King mostly had slaves working the mint (which was located in the Tower of London). As we frown on slavery, we libertarians should reward a working free man for his craft and should not frown at it. By knowing the silver in the coin is both pure and of a recognised quantity, by a recognised authority, the added value is there.

In 1950, the US gov't bought domestic mined silver at $0.905/oz and sold it at $0.91/oz. This lasted until 1959, when the last of the previous 2 billion ounces of silver in Treasury reserves was sold off, and silver coin (about 1.5 billion ounces worth) started to be melted down as the price exceeded $1.29 once again.

As a result, I don't see Bernard's pricing as excessive by any measure. If he had much higher demand to justify large automated production like the US Mint has, he could probably get his margin down significantly and not have to rely on his present distribution system, but that is something we can only hope for.
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Mike Lorrey

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2006, 12:32:10 am »

Why not contract with a private mint?  The Liberty Dollar people probably don't actually make their own coins.



Bernard has his ALD minted by Sunshine Mint.

SCA people have a group of coiners, who go by ancient methods of hand forging with a hand engraved die and collar.
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terry50ish

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2006, 04:12:10 pm »

What about making  round sliver medallions for businesses which could be either sold, traded or given by businesses as a coupon? For example Joes barber shop might have a 1 ounce sliver coin which could be handed in for 1 haircut, Sals Fast  Market might have coins made good for 3 gallons of regular unleaded, a 12 ounce cup of coffee and a donut, Susans  Fine Mens Talior Shop might have a 1 ounce gold coin made which could be handed in in exchange for a man's suit. This might even work as a bit of a hedge for sliver and gold investors for times when the metals value drops.
You have to sell them higher than their intrinsic worth if you want to pay for the time, equipment, shipping etc. that would be necessary.  Their profit margin does seem a bit high though.  By "a bit" I mean rediculously.

The problem then is than the money holder looses money in the exchange.  If I say 1 Antro is worth $10 USD, but it only contains $9 worth of silver, I'm creating a fiction that my coin is worth more than it is, a fiction that can be maintained only by those who believe in it.  As soon as you encounter someone who will not maintain that fiction, your money is instantly devalued.


What I would want to do is subsidize the cost of making the coins through other business ventures.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2006, 04:22:22 pm by terry50ish »
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Mike Lorrey

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2006, 04:47:48 pm »

What about making  round sliver medallions for businesses which could be either sold, traded or given by businesses as a coupon? For example Joes barber shop might have a 1 ounce sliver coin which could be handed in for 1 haircut, Sals Fast  Market might have coins made good for 3 gallons of regular unleaded, a 12 ounce cup of coffee and a donut, Susans  Fine Mens Talior Shop might have a 1 ounce gold coin made which could be handed in in exchange for a man's suit. This might even work as a bit of a hedge for sliver and gold investors for times when the metals value drops.
You have to sell them higher than their intrinsic worth if you want to pay for the time, equipment, shipping etc. that would be necessary.  Their profit margin does seem a bit high though.  By "a bit" I mean rediculously.

The problem then is than the money holder looses money in the exchange.  If I say 1 Antro is worth $10 USD, but it only contains $9 worth of silver, I'm creating a fiction that my coin is worth more than it is, a fiction that can be maintained only by those who believe in it.  As soon as you encounter someone who will not maintain that fiction, your money is instantly devalued.

This is a common misperception, one which bugged me for a while, too. 1 Antro may have only $9 in silver in it, but it has value other than its intrinsic metal value. As a work of art of finite production quantity, it has collectible scarcity value. As a standard of exchange, it is worth whatever the market is willing to exchange for it.

The US government, for more than a century when this was a hard money country, bought silver for $0.90/oz, and issued silver dollars with less than an ounce of silver in them. When the government was buying all the silver supply for its currency, the price of silver would climb to $1.29/oz, since that was the value of an ounce worth of silver coins, because that was the most common source of supply for jewellers to make silver jewellry and other finery with. They had to obtain silver dollars and melt them down to make their jewelry and such.

We are a long way from having that type of economy. The FRN has NO intrinstic value, so it is farcical when the bank or merchants complain that the ALD doesn't have the full face value in silver: the FRN has no silver content, so by that standard, the ALD is still 90% better than no silver content at all.
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Power Penguin

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Re: Making your own coins
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2006, 04:33:30 pm »

The reason NORFED's face values are greater than the metal price is because it is designed to match the crappy Federal Reserve Dollar as closely as possible. Because you can't just make new ones out of thin air, you need to "preclude" FRN devaluation. Otherwise, you'd have to forge new ones every single day! Get it?
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