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Author Topic: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.  (Read 14518 times)

Russell Kanning

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2006, 03:10:09 am »

I am not excited to meet another person who is comfortable with the current US police state.
If you are a person who would arrest me for not paying taxes, then you are a tool of evil government. Quit now and save your soul.

You mentioned that you are a Christian. How did Jesus teach us to interact with each other?
How does "you shall not kill" fit in with the US liberating Iraq by killing people?

Since you are sorting these things out, I would recommend reading some stuff by Tolstoy (The Kingdom of God is Within You) and Ghandi about how to apply Christ's teachings to our current society.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

KBCraig

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2006, 04:56:56 am »

Since you are sorting these things out, I would recommend reading some stuff by Tolstoy (The Kingdom of God is Within You) and Ghandi about how to apply Christ's teachings to our current society.

Tolstoy was a Christian, but I'm unaware of Gandhi's writings being included in the Apologia. ;-)

Kevin
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Russell Kanning

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2006, 07:33:07 am »

He learned a lot from Tolstoy and was trying to apply truths taught by Christ to his situation.
I am trying to do the same thing.
I don't know anything about the Apologia.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

JonM

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2006, 08:54:46 am »

Do you think the inevitable conflict that will be created between anarchists and minarchist faction is more or less of a burden than the effect that the anarchist position is going to have on opponents to the FSP in the larger community within the state?

To put it another way - do you not think it would have made more sense to state explicitly like the SOI had previously that the sole role of government was to protect life, liberty and property making the FSP a decidely minarchist rather than anarchist project?

It would be interesting to do a scientific poll of the folks who have moved so far what percentage claim to be anarchists. My hunch is that it is disproportionate to the final tally when 20K move.

Some people may remember Ralph as Greenbacks.
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freedom's ideologue

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2006, 09:14:14 am »

Quote
NH bound makes a good point that it takes time to get used to the idea of freedom

And he makes a LOUSY point when he tries to say that the FSP is not about national issues.  I wouldn't have moved 1000 miles from my home if all this was about was electing selectment.

Take this for what its worth from a classical LIBERAL (yes, I guess that makes me automatically hated) who believes we are fighting the greatest threat of our generation:  FEDERAL FASCISM.

Caleb

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We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done. - Jean Luc Picard

RalphBorsodi

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2006, 09:49:04 am »

He learned a lot from Tolstoy and was trying to apply truths taught by Christ to his situation.
I am trying to do the same thing.

If you are a person who would arrest me for not paying taxes, then you are a tool of evil government.

It is too bad you don't understand Tolstoy.
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freedomroad

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2006, 11:26:04 am »

I wouldn't have moved 1000 miles from my home if all this was about was electing selectment.
Caleb

Clearly, I said nothing like that.  But OK, you are right.  The FSP could be expanded to mean that we should move to NH so that we have more influence over the US gov, the UN, NATO, and the WTO.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2006, 01:24:32 pm by NH Bound »
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lloydbob1

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2006, 11:34:14 am »

I think it is pretty clear.  We free the state and then negotiate with the feds about the fascism we will no longer accept.
This doesn't mean, as individuals we can't form groups to protest against the feds and try to starve them, but, it is outside of the mission of the FSP.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2006, 11:36:26 am by Lloyd Danforth (lloydbob1) »
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Morey

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2006, 08:44:15 pm »

And so you see, OP, we have a pretty diverse group, even within this little forum.  Don't let that scare you!  Though our styles, methods, and even end goals differ greatly, we all share a core interest of gaining more freedom.

If you come to Porcfest, you'll see that even us forum dwellers are friendly in person.  :D
« Last Edit: April 01, 2006, 08:48:05 pm by Morey »
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Power Penguin

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2006, 01:52:04 am »

Yeah you should if you can. I would if I could, but since I'm going to be doing outreach at the LP National Convention, I'll have to wait until next year for PorcFest :'(
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Russell Kanning

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2006, 07:37:31 am »

I bet porcfest is more fun. I know it has more drinking.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

freedomroad

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2006, 09:16:55 am »

Yeah you should if you can. I would if I could, but since I'm going to be doing outreach at the LP National Convention, I'll have to wait until next year for PorcFest :'(

It should be no problem attending both, time wise as they are at different times.  I here ya, though, you will save several hundred by only going to one.  I was going to attend both but the Convention is too close to the 4th of July for my boss to let me go.
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Ward Griffiths

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2006, 09:36:02 am »

I bet porcfest is more fun. I know it has more drinking.
Russell, you've obviously never attended a political convention.
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lloydbob1

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2006, 11:05:56 am »

I have, although, not a national one.  Porcfest is more fun, with or without the drinking.
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Ward Griffiths

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Re: I like the idea, but I'm not quite sold.
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2006, 11:13:56 am »

I have, although, not a national one.  Porcfest is more fun, with or without the drinking.
Without doubt more fun at Porcfest.  It was the drinking I was referring to.  The only convention I've attended that's been close to as enjoyable as Porcfest was LFScon (Libertarian Futurist Society) attached to Marcon in Columbus OH Memorial Day 2001.  More Prometheus winning SF writers in one place than any other time in history.  Oh yeah, and the drinking.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  (Denis Diderot)
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