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Author Topic: Recovering Welfareholic  (Read 18284 times)

lasse

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Re: Recovering Welfareholic
« Reply #60 on: June 08, 2006, 06:18:58 pm »

Refusing to pay taxes gets you fined and in worst case jailed. Refusing welfare gets bewildered looks.
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Dreepa

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Re: Recovering Welfareholic
« Reply #61 on: June 08, 2006, 06:47:14 pm »


Given a few other conditions that you seem to have either ignored or missed, yes.  You don't think the ends justify the means in the case I presented?  Reasons please?  ...or are you only capable of emotional outbursts devoid of rational thought?

And by the way, why are you still paying your taxes and thereby not only funding the government but lessening the burden on others who might otherwise be inspired/enraged into action/refussal, precipitating a cycle of refusal that might have significant positive overall effects (not to mention all the pro-freedom things you could use that money for)?  Do your ends in your case justify your means?  That's an honest question since I have no knowledge of your circumstances.     


No I don't think the ends justifies the means in the case you presented.
If 20K people move to NH and 19K go on welfare of some sort most likely the taxes will rise on the 1K who are paying taxes.

How do you know I pay taxes?

This is the part where libertarians suck.  Everyone is so freakin' smart that they will talk and talk and talk about esoteric things but do little.
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RobRolen

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Re: Recovering Welfareholic
« Reply #62 on: June 08, 2006, 08:01:55 pm »


No I don't think the ends justifies the means in the case you presented.
If 20K people move to NH and 19K go on welfare of some sort most likely the taxes will rise on the 1K who are paying taxes.

What?  You're not making any sense.  Why are you limitting your argument to just the 20K movers?  Let me see if I can't argue your position for you.  If the 20K (or 1K) people who are moving to NH go on welfare (or take government "jobs") so that they can the result will be a slight increase in the taxes of everyone across the country (an extremely unlikely assumption) and this will somehow be worse for liberty than all the additional freedom procured as a result of them now being able to devote substantially more of their time to activism.  Does that help? 

How do you know I pay taxes?

Do you even recall writing this?:

It is ok for 10 people to move in and receive welfare (thereby raising my taxes) as long as they work for 'liberty'?

It kind of implies that you are paying taxes, otherwise why would you gripe about it raising specifically YOUR taxes?
But like I said, I don't know the specifics of your situation and don't care since you obviously can't be bothered to explain yourself.     

This is the part where libertarians suck. Everyone is so freakin' smart that they will talk and talk and talk about esoteric things but do little.

We are specifically talking about how each of us plans on funding and increasing our activism.  There's nothing esoteric about this at all.  This is what some of us are doing right now you dimwit.  And yet you feel the need to cut down these FSP members' strategies even though they may make perfect sense and all while failing to provide any rational arguments for why they are so horribly unethical and intolerable.  If only you had a little more "freakin" smarts, this discussion wouldn't "suck" so much.  Do you need me to simplify it some more for you?

     
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Dreepa

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Re: Recovering Welfareholic
« Reply #63 on: June 08, 2006, 09:18:49 pm »

or take government "jobs"

I never said anything about government jobs.  I am talking about welfare.

Quote
We are specifically talking about how each of us plans on funding and increasing our activism.  There's nothing esoteric about this at all.  This is what some of us are doing right now you dimwit.  And yet you feel the need to cut down these FSP members' strategies even though they may make perfect sense and all while failing to provide any rational arguments for why they are so horribly unethical and intolerable. 
and the I am the dimwit.. ok.  These are specific strategies?  Really exactly which people are doing that? Ok come to NH and come get your couple hundred dollar welfare checks and fight for small government.  If that is your plan have at it.
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Denis Goddard

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Re: Recovering Welfareholic
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2006, 10:37:25 pm »

That's it....
Rob and Dreepa, you boys sit in opposite corners for the rest of class!

I want both of you to write a one-page essay titled "why it is a bad idea to beat up my best friends"

Rocketman

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Re: Recovering Welfareholic
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2006, 11:00:21 pm »

Well, Rob's in Hawaii, right?  That would be the opposite corner.   :P
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RobRolen

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Re: Recovering Welfareholic
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2006, 03:17:08 am »

I never said anything about government jobs.  I am talking about welfare.

I was talking about both as you would know if you read my posts, and there's really no big difference between the two anyway. 

and the I am the dimwit.. ok.  These are specific strategies?  Really exactly which people are doing that?

Me for one, and probably about 5% or more of the rest of the FSP members I'ld imagine. 

Ok come to NH and come get your couple hundred dollar welfare checks and fight for small government.  If that is your plan have at it.

Great!  So you agree now.  One thing though, my "welfare" check will be in the six figures this year with a similarly sized one waiting for me in NH in 2007-2008.  I look forward to buying everyone a nice hearty brew when I arrive, hopefully with a dozen signers in tow.  Then hopefully within a dozen years or less, I can help abolish all of the federal jobs in the state, mine included. 

Well, Rob's in Hawaii, right?  That would be the opposite corner.   :P

Precisely.  It's the rock fever talking.  Pay no attention to my vicious rants. 

Aloha to all (even Dreepa),
R. Rolen   
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Denis Goddard

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Re: Recovering Welfareholic
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2006, 06:08:47 am »

I look forward to buying everyone a nice hearty brew when I arrive, hopefully with a dozen signers in tow.
You name the place, I'll bring thirsty early-mover activists, yearning for a cold one and happy to see new blood! :)

Icarus

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Re: Recovering Welfareholic
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2006, 05:09:14 pm »

or take government "jobs"
I never said anything about government jobs.
Not true.
I can't be believe I'm reading this.  I am less proud to be a part of the FSP than I was yesterday.

I would have no problem taking a large government grant for my research, even though I would have a problem with going on welfare or unemployment insurance. Hypocritical? Maybe. But I agree with the arguments above that the money is going to be used, so it might as well be used for a good cause.

Royerson you are right.

Recieving and using a government research grant is, for the purposes of this discussion, no different than taking a government job.
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Dreepa

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Re: Recovering Welfareholic
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2006, 05:13:26 pm »

or take government "jobs"
I never said anything about government jobs.
Not true.
I can't be believe I'm reading this.  I am less proud to be a part of the FSP than I was yesterday.

I would have no problem taking a large government grant for my research, even though I would have a problem with going on welfare or unemployment insurance. Hypocritical? Maybe. But I agree with the arguments above that the money is going to be used, so it might as well be used for a good cause.

Royerson you are right.

Recieving and using a government research grant is, for the purposes of this discussion, no different than taking a government job.

I never said anything about government jobs.  I was talking about welfare.  Other people debating about jobs but I was only refering to welfare (ie gettting money for doing nothing).  I am ok with people having government jobs. Hopefully over time there will be less of them.

When I said 'Royerson you are right 'I was refering to this:
I can't be believe I'm reading this.  I am less proud to be a part of the FSP than I was yesterday.
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Rocketman

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Re: Recovering Welfareholic
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2006, 08:36:56 pm »

Denis you are right.
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5/13/06: I'M HOME!!!!!!!!!  #401!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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