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Author Topic: opportunities in homeschooling?  (Read 4534 times)

brontus

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opportunities in homeschooling?
« on: October 30, 2005, 04:12:17 pm »

I have a question that might prove quite controversial to the homeschooling crowd, but is honestly not meant to be a flame or troll.  Being 25 and single, I'm a ways from this being an issue in my life yet.

In my mind the issues in education are breadth vs depth, parent's priorities vs child's priorities, theory vs practice, and information vs opportunity.

In homeschooling what happens if the pupil outpaces the teacher?  How does a parent teach a topic which they do not understand themselves?  I hear constantly about people who claim to known more about a subject than their teacher, but frankly I find such stories suspect.  They may be cases where a student is more informed about a particular topic, but I have never seen a case of a full-time teacher being unprepared to teach the subject.  Not teaching it in a manner best suited to learning - yes, but not understanding the material themself - no.

Second, I have found that it is often the case that a parent's and child's priorities are quite different.  To the people who proudly proclaim that they skipped or were high during most of their schooling, how would you feel if your own child tried to get out of their educational responsibilities, especially if you were homeschooling them?  Additionally, it's a common story to hear of parents wishing for their child to become a doctor or lawyer or some other high-paying/high-profile occupation, but the student being more intrested in programming, or environmental science or something completely differnet.  Of course parents have an obbligation to raise their child in the manner that they see fit, but I don't think it's neccessarily the best idea for the parents to allow parents to be the sole voice of their children's upbringing.

I am also worried about how parents would have access to the kind of hand's on equipment that can be quite useful or even neccessary in learning certain topics.  How do you teach titration without potentially hundreds of dollars worth of equipment that won't be used more than a couple times?

And finally my last complaint is that homeschooling could keep a child from discovering a career that neither the child or the parent had thought of.  My brother currently looking at trade/tech schools and internships for television production after he graduates in May, but no one in my family would have ever thought of that path if his school didn't televise their morning announcements.

I would really appreciate intelligent arguments to my contentions so I can be more informed on the topic.
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5thconcerto

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Re: opportunities in homeschooling?
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2005, 06:29:18 pm »

First off, once a child learns to read and write, it is not a question of teaching them, rather it becomes a matter of allowing them to learn. Guidance is what "teachers" should be supplying.

In regards your point about teachers knowing more than their students. My sister took a dual major in college, Math and French. She also took some Latin and Spanish. Her first job offer was to teach Greek, which she had never studied. Need I say more?
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jeanius

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Re: opportunities in homeschooling?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2005, 10:03:41 am »

"In my mind the issues in education are breadth vs depth, parent's priorities vs child's priorities, theory vs practice, and information vs opportunity."

I'm starting on year five of homeschooling my children.  You raise some good points, but I think those are issues for families to work out. 

With respect to the knowledge base of parents, I know women who have taught their children calculus by first learning it themselves.  Ditto languages, foreign and ancient, physics, etc.  The thing is you don't leap into teaching calculus.  You follow with your child for the years leading up to that and either learn it yourself or choose another popular option --> tutoring or outside classes. 

Parents of schooled children pressure their offspring towards various options.  This is a personal issue rather than a problem with homeschooling.  I, personally, watch for and encourage personal preference and talent.  Some of my issues with the public school system are about requiring children to be good all around .... i.e. generalists of sorts.  What about the math wiz who isn't good with reading language arts?  Often these kids get labeled as "bad" students because language arts are pivotal in the system overall.  And, there are ways to help these kids with their RLA skills.  Great book out there called "A Mind at a Time" written by a pediatrician on learning types/styles.  We all have preferences and talents that we need to work with.   However, I still require my children to know basic math, reading, grammar, spelling, history and science.  Some of this is just basic stuff.  But when it comes to options, they get to choose.  My daughter wants to learn french, my son japanese.  Children's preferences comes out in their performance.  Turning them away from that damages them.

Equipment and the costs ... well, with three children I find I can my money's worth out of a lot of things.  We're looking for a reasonable microscope now.  We have a chemistry set and we buy science kits regularly.  And school systems don't always have the best or even the right equipment to do things.  Even though we could use the public school system and even though we still pay education taxes, we still spend quite a bit every year on books and supplies.  That was part of the deal in our opinion.  And when equipment gets very expensive you're usually talking about high school.  Many junior colleges teach courses that talented high schoolers can attend.  Other such resources are available.

I sure as heck didn't learn that much about the variety of careers available to me in school.  I learned more in talking to people, going to my mother's office, reading, friends of the family, etc. 

Schools are not the only way to learn and the thinking that everything a child needs to learn needs to happen in "school" or in some centralized way is problematic in several ways.  My experience with actual homeschooling is different than my expectations.  My children learn amazing things without my help, with access to materials such as books, software, the Discovery channel!  They learn from the conversations they overhear and participate in with their friends and ours and from other visitors to our home and as visitors in others.  Learning happens all the time and everyplace.  Getting out of the lockstep that it is something spoon fed from others and in a particular place during particular times is a major benefit all around.

Jean

 
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Dreepa

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Re: opportunities in homeschooling?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2005, 01:31:36 pm »

Titration for the common folk is this:
http://members.aol.com/profchm/titrate.html
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BrianMcCandliss

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Re: opportunities in homeschooling?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2005, 05:00:13 pm »

Parents of schooled children pressure their offspring toward various options.  This is a personal issue rather than a problem with homeschooling.  I, personally, watch for and encourage personal preference and talent.  Some of my issues with the public school system are about requiring children to be good all around .... i.e. generalists of sorts.  What about the math wiz who isn't good with reading language arts?  Often these kids get labeled as "bad" students because language arts are pivotal in the system overall. 

This is a pet peeve of mine, since the Standford-Benet "cookie-cutter" approach to education, takes a one-dimensional approach to individual intelligence (and worth, for that matter), with a person's intelligence measured on a linear scale, i.e. their "IQ--" which is pretty social Darwinist, basically determining another person's future by statist fiat, rather than actual practice.

However, more recent discoveries by such experts as pediatrician Mel Levine, find that neuro-assessment tests reveal individuals, to have individual     abilities, as opposed to simple degrees of linear progress along one-dimensional scales (i.e. various factors contributing to the individual's "IQ" score, which determine how "intelligent" the person is).

As such, statist labels of intelligence, bear out such simplistic measures as "Bell Curve" sophistry, by which elitists seek to dominate by word rather than deed, using their own twisted science as "proof" that those conforming to certain standards, are more "fit" than others to exist and succeed in society; as a result, those who conform favorably to modern standardized tests and education, are given opportunities which are denied others that fail (or refuse) to conform.

So as you can see, we live under an empire of corporate statism, and modern education is the (predictable) method of exploiting the masses according to the standards of the elite.

The true solution to this, is to "beat the system," i.e. to find a demand in the marketplace which you can most fulfill better than the competition, in order to maximize your profits, while fulfilling the various bureaucratic requirements such as licensing and credentials etc. by any means necessary; the key is to supply a demand as efficiently as possible, not to jump through bureaucratic hoops and over red-tape hurdles.

The first thing you have to teach ANYONE, is that they are a sovereign individual-- which we don't do in our current system; rather, the closest thing we teach is to force them to finish the "pledge" with the words "with liberty and justice for all--" clearly an oxymoron in itself, since there's no liberty or justice in forcing them to attend school or recite such pledges.

Once you teach them about their individual sovereignty, you must then explain how that's been suppressed in the current system, and how it's essential to BEAT the system--  sort of an "Uncle Remus" philosophy for modern-day slaves.

If people go teaching kids that they're free under our current system, they'll just be naive-- or even elitist-- as well as bound for a big shock once they pull on their little leash too hard. ALL the richest individuals families-- as well as the most powerful politico's-- are quite aware of the hypocrisy under which they live-- and they simply accept it as "the rules of the game:" and they don't want to change the rules as long as they're winning, while the "little people" are in the dark about them, believing in naivete credo's about "freedom" and "equality;" they play dirty, and they like it.

However, our current state-system, naturally seeks to label individuals according to a uniform standard-- while at the same time doing so according to elitist standards, labelling the student according to the (limited) standards of the teacher.
Thus they attempt to judge perfection according to imperfect standards-- with disastrous results, particularly to liberty.

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Even though we could use the public school system and even though we still pay education taxes, we still spend quite a bit every year on books and supplies.


Actually that's not the HALF of it; those "school taxes" aren't anywhere NEAR the full amount that you pay for public schools.

Rather, since school gets ALL of its money from government, then school-expenses add to the price of EVERYTHING you buy, from your mortgage/rent, to your Cheerio's. EVERYTHING! The school gets its money from local, state and federal taxes, which apply to all businesses-- which all pass the costs along to you.
(Seriously, where did you think that money was coming from? If you have an answer, you're better-off than most people, who just assume that businesses take it out of "profits"."

So the truth is, you're paying a LOT more for public schools, than just your "education taxes."

Fact: If you WEREN'T paying these taxes, you'd have about $20,000/year more in your annual education-budget with which to work--- SERIOUSLY!
(This might include education-loans, but the amortization-payments would amount to no more than what you're currently paying for public schools-- and will be for the rest of your life).

Sorry to harp on this point, but it's a fact that many tend to take for granted, i.e. that education-taxes are the ONLY thing they're paying for public schools; if everyone knew the "hidden-costs" involved, then public schools would end tomorrow.
NOW you see why I harp on this point?

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That was part of the deal in our opinion. 
Yep--  "whoever shall eat the king's bread, shall do the king's bidding--" however all shall pay the king's taxes.

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I sure as heck didn't learn that much about the variety of careers available to me in school.  I learned more in talking to people, going to my mother's office, reading, friends of the family, etc. 


Which is exactly what public schools were claimed to prevent-- i.e. they were claimed to promote equality by providing opportunities other than those provided by a person's family. However all they did, was force people in with a bunch of stupid kids, from which they'd learn NOTHING good.

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Schools are not the only way to learn and the thinking that everything a child needs to learn needs to happen in "school" or in some centralized way is problematic in several ways.  My experience with actual homeschooling is different than my expectations.  My children learn amazing things without my help, with access to materials such as books, software, the Discovery channel!  They learn from the conversations they overhear and participate in with their friends and ours and from other visitors to our home and as visitors in others.  Learning happens all the time and everyplace.  Getting out of the lockstep that it is something spoon fed from others and in a particular place during particular times is a major benefit all around.
Jean
[

Schools aren't ANY way to learn to do anything, but be an obedient slave to society-- according to the standards of the ruling elite. This is why schools are so dangerous to kids, and they refuse to stop it-- it's because the state naturally seeks to lower the self-worth of the individual, believe it or not.

Kids are taught in such a way as to function in society's interest, rather than their own interest; seriously, how often do you hear politicians say "our society's falling behind in these areas, we need to alter school-curriculum's to make up for it"?
In other words, they sit up on high, and decide what OTHERS should do in order to benefit their own interests- or the collective interest (same difference).

Of course, this is justified as "what's good for your society, is good for you; "viva la state."
You'll never hear any of them say "we need to get OUT of people's lives, so they can fulfill their own dreams and visions." And those who DO say such things, are usually phony conservatives paying lip-service-- and who then turn around and propose the most programs and spending.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2005, 08:23:47 pm by BrianMcCandliss »
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