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Author Topic: Seditious Ramblings  (Read 113935 times)

KBCraig

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #255 on: October 26, 2005, 11:07:02 am »

Yup, nothing like backstabbing....  Thanks for the validation, Russell.  Keep proving my point... I expect nothing less and nothing more from the radical fringers.
I was helping people identify you as Harry Potter not Gandalf

Ridley does sort of favor Gollum...
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Dreepa

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #256 on: October 26, 2005, 11:48:38 am »

The radical fringe is intolerant of anyone who isn't 'libertarian enough'

Your 'off the hip' drivel rhetoric is becoming as sad bad as Russell's,  Seth.  I don't think it's 'libertarian enough', it's 'anarchist enough'.

I was being generally inclusive, because the 'fringe' is more than just the NHFree crowd... the 'more libertarian than thou' crowd who drive off those who are only 70-80% libertarian minded here on the FSP forum is in the same vein, and hurts the FSP just as much by pushing off potential people who might move except they are seemingly rejected by the radicals as 'not lib enough' before they can commit to moving. 

NHFree is more anarchic in general, but the _rest_ of NH doesn't know the difference... they think it's the "Free Staters", and lump it all together...  And the anarchs wonder why they are getting disowned?

Quote
I don't believe their activism is going to eaffect your political efforts any more than what you do will eaffect them.

Don't believe it...  I've already see it happen, and had to deal with it.  Your belief doesn't match my reality.

Maybe it is that the FSP is just attracting the 'fringe' crowd.
The goal of the FSP is to recruit people to move to NH etc etc etc. 
Many people can disagree with Russell's action ( re flag burning and UFO) but if nothing else he is doing the things that he believes to further the cause of liberity.  How can people get mad at that?  He is doing what the FSP brought him to NH to do.

Now you can take umbrage (that is a 50 cent word) at his attacking the FSP etc but I think that the two should be clearly distinct.
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jeanius

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #257 on: October 26, 2005, 11:53:17 am »

Amusing 'zine Russell.   :P

For what it's worth, I don't think that the state of New Hampshire is an enemy.  And, I actually argued in *favor* of the roadway signs.  I thought it was a good citizenship thing to do, showed Kat's (et al) commitment to her new home state, and was some advertising in addition.  However, I was convinced by others that actions by individuals in the FSP shouldn't be credited to the FSP and I continue to be convinced of that.

Jean
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"Hagrid"

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #258 on: October 26, 2005, 11:53:44 am »

I was helping people identify you as Harry Potter not Gandalf

No, that's Jason.  Hermione and Ron are taken too: http://www.livejournal.com/users/amanda42/398074.html

freedomroad

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #259 on: October 26, 2005, 11:56:15 am »

Some libertarians support the idea of Eminent Domain as a necessary evil, though I disagree with them.

Are there any FSP members who support eminent domain as a necessary evil?

I do if it protects life or liberty or property, but I've never know of a case where it has done any of those things.  However, I don't know any libertarians or FSP members that have told me they are happy about the Kelo case results.
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Rocketman

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #260 on: October 26, 2005, 12:47:00 pm »

However, I don't know any libertarians or FSP members that have told me they are happy about the Kelo case results.

I've heard several libertarians agree with the case results because they believe the federal government shouldn't have jurisdiction over a local government action.  Some very moderate libertarians might think ED is okay if used very sparingly and responsibly, but no libertarian would support the government stealing homes and selling them to Pfizer.   ::) :'(

Really, that should be obvious.  Why would the FSP need to take a position on ED when it's freaking well obvious participants oppose it?  Other organizations should handle the task of publicizing individual action.  The FSP as an organization should only cheerlead individual action if doing so is in the FSP's interest.
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Rocketman

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #261 on: October 26, 2005, 12:51:18 pm »

 
The FSP as an organization should only cheerlead individual action if doing so is in the FSP's interest.

Oh, and by the way, the FSP's interest is specific and clearly defined -- the FSP exists for the purpose of attracting liberty activists to New Hampshire.
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eukreign

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #262 on: October 26, 2005, 01:01:48 pm »

The FSP as an organization should only cheerlead individual action if doing so is in the FSP's interest.

Which actions are in the FSP's best interest? How do you determine?
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lloydbob1

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #263 on: October 26, 2005, 04:28:59 pm »

Actually, the more likely point is that a libertarian could think that Kelo was rightly decided because it shouldn't have been a federal issue.  As much as my sympathies run in the other direction, I find it hard to logically dispute this point; if you take federalism seriously, you have to take all of it, and incorporation (enforcing the Bill of Rights against the states) is a pretty obvious encroachment on state authority.  State eminent domain belongs in state courts regarding state law--where the citizens of that state can threaten to oust their entire legislature come November if the law isn't fixed.

I don't see how anyone could combine libertarian-think-rightly when the subject is taking property from  people who own it and don't want to part with it.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 04:33:22 pm by Lloyd Danforth (lloydbob1) »
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #264 on: October 27, 2005, 06:54:04 am »

So then we can support Lauren and the Kelo 7 8)
Nobody is stopping you Russell.
We (as in the fsp) stopped me from putting excellent articles and video clips about Lauren on the front page of the FSP website. The most exciting thing a member of the FSP had done this year was ignored for a while and then relegated to some other page. People across america do not get fired up about lame meeting minutes. They do get revved up when one of us stands up to the government.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #265 on: October 27, 2005, 06:54:51 am »

I was helping people identify you as Harry Potter not Gandalf

No, that's Jason.  Hermione and Ron are taken too: http://www.livejournal.com/users/amanda42/398074.html

I am glad you think it is funny now.  8)
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Friday

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #266 on: October 27, 2005, 06:58:47 am »

Thanks for your honesty, Kate, in letting me know that you find my thoughts "laughable" and myself a "cranky blowhard".  Guess we won't be spending a lot of time working together for freedom in New Hampshire. 

Friday, I wasn't talking about you at all.  Your letter, while not what I might have written myself, had little in it that troubled me.  It was the later "discussion" attacking people personally that pissed me off.  I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'm glad to hear that, kater.   :)

I'm starting to think that what the FSP really needs is a MEDIATOR!  :P  Come on, all of you.  We disagree over strategy, but none of the people participating in this discussion are blowhards.  Dada was there at MassCANN too and helped us get those several new members.  JonM was there, too.  Just this past weekend, Russell participated in a highway cleanup project, and his daughter documented the event with some nice pictures showing what a friendly, non-threatening bunch the Free Staters are, and how they spent their Saturday morning volunteering to make part of the Free State a little cleaner.  That same day, he and Kat hosted a party and a group outing to the Keene Pumpkin Festival.  More great photos, showing off one of the quirkier aspects of the Free State.  As for Morey, Christ, just this year the guy travelled all the way to Las Vegas, paid for his own attendance at FreedomFest, then spent a good part of the conference manning an FSP table.  He also spent several hours on his hands and knees in my parking lot, helping to paint the tax day banner, and was the only other NorCal person willing to help me hoist it and get yelled at by cops for our efforts.  Seth is a madman of activity for the FSP. So is Lloyd.  So is Jean, who, besides myself, was the only person who bothered to show up for the last volunteer coordination conference call.  Steve lives very far away, in a terribly inconvenient time zone, but he does what he can from afar, designing publicity materials and providing a lot of financial backing for other activists' projects.  Jason and Amanda, I've already talked about.  If I've left anyone out, it's only because I'm trying to type with a 9-week old kitten on my shoulder and it's a bit of a distraction.   ;)

When I have more time, I intend to sift through the sandbox that is this thread, scooping out the clumps for more detailed discussion.  OK, perhaps that wasn't quite the analogy I was looking for.   
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #267 on: October 27, 2005, 07:09:47 am »

However, I was convinced by others that actions by individuals in the FSP shouldn't be credited to the FSP and I continue to be convinced of that.
This is one thing wrong with the current leadership. You sit in virtual board meetings and scare each other out of taking any stands.

So what happens if one of us becomes a 1-man recruiting machine? Say .... Badnarik wrote his next book about the fsp and started touring the country proclaiming the good news of our movement and then ran for governor in NH and won. Would that be credited to the fsp? ....of course it would...because you 7 could agree on it.


The fsp is full of individuals recruiting and acting. If we do not attach any of this activity to the fsp, then the fsp looks dead. An activist does not need to have unanimous support of all the members for their work to be acknowledged by the rest of us. The fsp has more going on than what 7 board members can agree on.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

"Hagrid"

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #268 on: October 27, 2005, 07:43:17 am »

I am glad you think it is funny now.  8)

Considering I was one of the first to make the Jason/Harry connection, I always found that funny.

Your sad attempts at humor through insults and quotes pulled out of context are not.  Go back to your cave, troll.

Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #269 on: October 27, 2005, 08:54:37 am »

I was thinking that we need to hold a vote for our new leadership. We are not going to let the fsp die and the current direction is lousy. Some of my co-conspiritors and I were thinking that we could get rid of all the board meetings by just having 1 office - "President". We could nominate people for a couple of days and then vote.
What do you think?.... not so fast current leadership 8)

I nominate Sandy aka "Friday" ...... she wrote the "memo" ala Jerry McGuire. ;D
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude
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