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Author Topic: Seditious Ramblings  (Read 114361 times)

Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #195 on: October 25, 2005, 05:18:25 pm »

I do agree with Dada.  8)
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #196 on: October 25, 2005, 05:24:28 pm »

Trying not to hassle them.

Got to get back to it now.

Nik

 8)
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

kater

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #197 on: October 25, 2005, 05:27:00 pm »

At the risk of sounding like Rodney King, isn't this kind of dispute more destructive than productive at this point?  Do we need to hash out every issue on which we differ?  Can't we *ever* just %$^#$% work together like adults on thing we do agree on?
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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #198 on: October 25, 2005, 05:42:37 pm »

Seditious ramblings can be helpful, Sandy... I don't have the time to read your whole message, but I think I can understand some of the frustration at the way the FSP is going, but I also don't think "FSP leadership" as a whole is to blame - except maybe there's not enough communication. We're doing lots of stuff - sending speakers out, writing articles, running ads, manning tables, selling merchandise, planning the annual festival, and the like - but do people know about that stuff? Probably not many. As far as spending the 30K, we're just trying to make sure we make the best decision. We're definitely going with a PR firm, but we have offers from two different firms and are now working on special projects to try them out. Some decisions take a really, really long time to make - and I admit some decisions take longer than I would like. We're trying to do our due diligence, but all of us also have full-time jobs, so it can take a week or two just between each step of the process. That's inevitable, unless some rich person steps up and funds the position of a full-time administrator.

I really would like to know where we can do better - realistically.

Jason, thanks for your measured response.  I don't blame the FSP leadership either; if we had several times as many active members working on recruiting as we do, it wouldn't matter so much what the Board of Directors does.  But since we don't, and since what we've been doing isn't working (and I include myself in the "we"), I think it's time to try something new.  I know you are attempting that by getting rid of the 2006 deadline, although as I posted on the other thread on the subject, I supported a very different strategy.  At the moment, I don't see how getting rid of the 2006 deadline and encouraging people to move ASAP will have much, if any, impact on our recruitment numbers.  Something else has to change.  I'm sure that a lot of ideas will be thrown out here (and, if history is any indication, a lot of mud will be thrown, too  :P ).
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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #199 on: October 25, 2005, 06:02:25 pm »

I'm going to have to address these piecemeal.  There's a lot of ground covered in your post Sandy!

With respect to meeting minutes, there are brief by design.  They are first and foremost a corporate legal requirement.  Secondly, the actual conversations leading to decisions generally happen over email and other venues in advance of the actual meeting.  Finally, the conversations are most unhindered if they are private.  If people worry about curbing their discussion due to it being public that could be a bad thing. 

Elections didn't work out very well.  Very few people voted overall which showed an overall lack of interest.  Drawing in people who have shown dedication and good judgment seemed to work best. 

The money *is* being put to use.  As Jason pointed out we're talking to a couple of PR firms and expect to spend the funds that way.  Being slow to spend it is a bit of a problem but we are actively working on that.

Neil and I *have* moved to New Hampshire.  We are pleased to be here.  And while not everyone values my/our contributions to the FSP we care deeply about liberty in our lifetime and have committed thousands of dollars to help achieve it not including our move costs. 

With respect to neutrality ... that's a difficult stance  I know.  The problem is, as much as we all care about liberty, we all care about it differently.  One early issue was the highway cleanup signs.  The fact is , not everyone wants to support the state by cleaning their highways.  Yes, it's a nice piece of roadway advertising and it is generally considered a nice community volunteer effort.  But not everyone feels that way.  Are we helping our enemy?  These issues are not trivial.  Every "position" we could take could be vilified by folks on the other side.  Every time someone does something remotely controversial we hear from people who didn't like it. 

One of the reasons we seem to end up arguing, imo, is that we all have different ideas about how to achieve liberty and how to make FSP work best.  Those ideas are not always in sync ... actually they're rarely in sync.  Somehow there ends up being sniping and complaining.  And, I guess that's the way of many volunteer organizations.  But I continue to put many hours a week into the FSP.  Getting more movers to the Granite State is a worthy goal.

Jean

Thanks, Jean, for taking the time to respond in detail and with courtesy, both here and by email.  I understand what you're saying about wanting the leadership to feel free to speak their mind. At the same time, I have been involved with plenty of organizations that didn't handle it that way. And due to the unusual nature of this particular organization, I think the current secrecy-based model is particularly inappropriate.  The FSP asks a LOT of its membership. Yet not only are members not allowed to attend (virtually speaking) Board meetings, they're not allowed to know what was said at them after or before the fact.  And they have absolutely no say in the makeup of the body itself.  If things were going great, it would be a waste of all our time even having this discussion.  But unfortunately, they're not. Perhaps a change in staffing would help.  More openness would certainly help morale for some members, and would be ignored by those who don't care.

I think it's depressing that the FSP had low voter participation in Board elections.  Perhaps those numbers are a more accurate indication of our true membership than the count of how many people have ever stopped to fill out the sign-up form. In any case, I see no connection between voter turnout and the goodness/badness of the decision to have elections. 

I'm very glad to hear you and Jason say that you are going with a PR firm. Hopefully soon!!

I know you and your family have moved to New Hampshire. Congratulations, and welcome to the Free State! I'm sure we will be bumping into each other; Porcupines tend to congregate.

Yes, the issue of neutrality is a very difficult one.  Some people will always disagree on that subject. Rather than debating theory, let's talk efficacy.  Maybe ending neutrality would increase recruitment? Granted, some people will be turned off by certain publicity stunts. But others will be attracted.  I'm of the "all publicity is good publicity" school.

Yes, libertarians do tend to argue. A lot. My time is limited, like yours and everyone else's, and I do *not* enjoy arguing.  I'm looking for solutions here.  I don't intend to be dragged into a mudslinging flame war with anyone.
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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #200 on: October 25, 2005, 06:16:25 pm »


The FSP's goal is to get people to NH to engage in liberty-loving activities however they choose. But the official FSP response to the actions above? "We have no comment. We take no position. They do not speak for the FSP."

Gee, what's wrong with, "While the FSP doesn't endorse any particular cause or action, we cheer freedom-loving activists who choose to get involved and make a difference in their communities."


Yes!  Another option to a radical change in strategy is changing the way we communicate the current one.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #201 on: October 25, 2005, 06:17:10 pm »

The FSP has moved more self-proclaimed anarchists into NH then have every even existed in the state before.

Wow, sounds like a selling point to me! (And I'm not an anarchist.) Maybe we should use that line in our advertising.  ;D
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #202 on: October 25, 2005, 06:25:18 pm »

It appears to have analysis paralysis; it has been sitting on over $30,000 in organizational funds for months now, unable to decide whether to spend it on a marketing campaign or a paid employee (resulting in the money being spent on neither).
The Board recently approved the expenditure of money for paid PR/marketing. My sense is that this amount will grow as time goes on.

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Exciting and inspiring things are being done by early movers and friends of our cause in New Hampshire.  This is the proof that our concept is feasible, and must be shared with the rest of the world. However, in a vain attempt to comply with IRS registration standards and to adhere to a concept that the FSP is “merely a bus”, and takes absolutely no positions on anything at all, discussion of such things is verboten here.  Several times when an FSP participant has gained media exposure, they have been ignored or publicly disavowed by the organization.  I don’t know about you, but all of this seems extremely counterproductive to me.  What we need is publicity; why do we run away every time we get some?  I’m referring to the Free Town imbroglio, the Outlaw Manicurist, the Unidentified Flying Objector, and now Lauren Canario.  Our spokesperson recently indicated to a newspaper reporter that the FSP has no position on eminent domain. What?!?!? If we can’t even admit that we do have a position on eminent domain (we’re AGAINST it!!!), what the hell do we stand for? What’s the point of joining this organization?  ???
The point is to move to New Hampshire and work for liberty, knowing that there are others doing the same. We do not all agree on every issue. People have called for "the leadership" to take positions on issues. Do you want us to be "for" everything and against nothing? How will you feel if we say that we are against eminent domain but don't believe the Supreme Court reached the wrong decision in Kelo (because the Bill of Rights is not supposed to be applied to the states)? How will you feel when we're for outlaw manicurists but against UN flag burnings? Or for privacy rights but against HB599?

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What is to be done?  I don’t know.  But I do know that the current system is increasingly not just ineffectual, but idiotic.  And I have far too much invested in the FSP to just walk away now.  I know some of you others have as well, or plan on doing so in the near future.  It's time to try something new, preferably with the sanction of the leadership, but without it if need be.
It is much easier to recognize a problem than to take responsibility for achieving a solution. It will, as you note, take action.

Thank you for your response, Adam.  Taking responsibility for achieving a solution is the entire point of this thread. It's what I'm trying to do, and looking for others who are interested in working with me.

Regarding your "how will I feel" questions, well, actually, I'd be happy with every one you suggested.  But that's not really my point.  My point is that, right or wrong, the current system isn't working.
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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #203 on: October 25, 2005, 06:44:55 pm »


People who want to work on getting more liberty-lovers to move to move to NH? If you have some ideas on that, you can share them. If you want to help with that, all the better. If you want to complain about "the leadership" not doing it enough, hey, I'm with you on that, but it doesn't take a takeover to work towards that goal yourself. At the same time, I'd be curious to see the current "leadership" replaced with you, Kat, Dave, Mike, Sandy, and whomever else. Would you be able to ramp up our numbers? How?

The "How" is what I'm here to discuss.  FYI, I'm not fantasizing about taking your job. I'm fantasizing about how to radically increase the FSP's rate of recruitment.  I vent frustration at you and the rest of the Board and Organizers because you are in a position of organizational control, and I am not.  I know it stinks to be on the receiving end of criticism. I've received my share over the past few years, from several different Boardmembers and Organizers.  I hope that you understand that.
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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #204 on: October 25, 2005, 06:52:31 pm »


Fine.  Start a website- NHResults.com or something.  Build profiles for all the members that want to be included.  Build profiles for all of the protests, newspaper articles written by FSP members, complete details of all of the elections, etc.  Just get permission from the individuals.  Propose future projects.  Include 101 ways how people outside of NH can help recruit FSP members.  Give tips on how to move to NH quicker.  Put a big disclaimer on the main page of the site about how the things detailed on this page are the actions of pro-freedom people in NH or planing on moving to NH and are not related to the FSP.

I'll send you $100 to help pay for things if you get it going.  Ask Kat or Jason, I'm good for it.  And I'll work my butt off to MAKE sure there is a link to it on the FSP mainpage.

Awesome idea, NH Bound.  I am thinking about doing that. 
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Friday

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #205 on: October 25, 2005, 07:04:19 pm »

Jason and others have answered a lot of your issues, so I'm just answering the comments directed at me.

Our spokesperson recently indicated to a newspaper reporter that the FSP has no position on eminent domain. What?!?!? If we can’t even admit that we do have a position on eminent domain (we’re AGAINST it!!!), what the hell do we stand for? What’s the point of joining this organization?  ???

If you had bothered to ask, I would have been happy to clarify. The reporter quoted only part of what I said, and he quoted me out of context. What I said was that while the FSP as an organization has no position on specific political issues, it's safe to say that most of our individual participants strongly oppose eminent domain. The FSP's goal is to move 20,000 libertarians and small-government activists to New Hampshire where we can enhance and expand upon the freedom that already exists in New Hampshire.

I'm glad to hear that.  You're right, I didn't ask you directly about it. I did, however, wait for over two weeks to see if you or the FSP submitted a letter of clarification to the newspaper that misquoted you.  I know that letters of clarification have been submitted plenty of other times.  Did you submit one in this case and the paper refused to print it?

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #206 on: October 25, 2005, 07:10:48 pm »

Well, a thought . . .

The Free State Project is a corporation.  A corporation's board is elected by the shareholders.  The officers are elected by the board.

How about selling Free State Project stock?  Those wishing to pony up the most cash will have the most influence on the selection of the board, but if enough shares are issued nobody will be able to get dominant control without giving the FSP enough money to advertise the heck out of itself.

For those donating their time, stock could be awarded as a thank you for efforts expended on behalf of the FSP.

Now THAT is creative!  I know there is a perception amongst some members that they deserve more of a say in setting organizational strategy because they have donated $X.  But the rest of us have no way of knowing how much they give, or if others give equal amounts and for reasons we're unaware of somehow don't obtain the same level of control.  This would make things more open *and* raise funds for the FSP. I like it.
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eukreign

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #207 on: October 25, 2005, 07:11:47 pm »


Fine.  Start a website- NHResults.com or something.  Build profiles for all the members that want to be included.  Build profiles for all of the protests, newspaper articles written by FSP members, complete details of all of the elections, etc.  Just get permission from the individuals.  Propose future projects.  Include 101 ways how people outside of NH can help recruit FSP members.  Give tips on how to move to NH quicker.  Put a big disclaimer on the main page of the site about how the things detailed on this page are the actions of pro-freedom people in NH or planing on moving to NH and are not related to the FSP.

I'll send you $100 to help pay for things if you get it going.  Ask Kat or Jason, I'm good for it.  And I'll work my butt off to MAKE sure there is a link to it on the FSP mainpage.

Awesome idea, NH Bound.  I am thinking about doing that. 

Count me in for another $100.
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"Hagrid"

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #208 on: October 25, 2005, 07:20:39 pm »

and heck I can even tolerate the Seth Lord himself!   As long as we don't let it get too personal, we will benefit from fighting!

Between these sort of  comments which NHFree's forum thrives on, and Dada's general inability to distinguish good press from bad, I rest my case about the radical fringe's becoming more and more of a problem and not part of the solution.

Dada, please remove my phone number from your cellphone.  I can't tolerate Mr Dave Ridley, media god in his own mind.

Pat K

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #209 on: October 25, 2005, 07:24:56 pm »

Gee Seth should he take you off speed dial too? Or just lower you to the number 9 spot?  ;D
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Jason Osborne ‎"Fighting for reduction of government" is kind of like smashing your dick in a car door to reduce the pain of smashing your dick in the car door, and then getting pissed at the folks who don't want to smash their dicks in car doors as if it is their fault that your dick hurts.

"I don't recommend looking towards a government building if you don't want to see indecent behavior."  --Russell Kanning
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