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Author Topic: Seditious Ramblings  (Read 114389 times)

kater

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #180 on: October 25, 2005, 03:45:50 pm »

I believe every act of non-violent civil disobedience in NH has been initiatied by the anarchist early mover wing and the concern from minarchist wing is that these will hurt efforts to build a majority political party. I only used the term "violent" in quotes in response to Steve's attempt at humor.

Sure, but those acts of civil disobedience have hardly been the only acts initiated.  They may have been the ones that made the news, but more minarchist, incrementalist steps are a) happening and b) comparatively boring.  Doesn't mean they won't be the seeds of something great.

Quote
There is no common ground on the fundamental question of the role of the state and that leads to one group hurting not helping the ultimate goal of the other -- to build a majority party to take political power.

Bull.  ;)  As above, the incremental steps toward smaller government can tread in the same steps as the incremental steps toward no government.  I agree that some stunts are more helpful than others, but I saw a lot of great reaction to Mike's manicurist stunt, for example, and while some thought it was silly, it hardly made the law look reasonable.  As a "political power" type, I think the split is overrated.
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kater

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #181 on: October 25, 2005, 03:48:12 pm »

well, he got more news coverage for the FSP that week than any of the rest of us.  If it was by accident well then no gold star for him, but it still helped. 

Yeah, news coverage that made people scared of those nutcase libertarians with their guns and meth labs.   ::)  Lol.  Come on, Dave, you can't really think that was *good* press.  If a guy who had FSP literature in his mailbox went sniper and killed innocent people, would you want us to publicize the "connection"?
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artienewport

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #182 on: October 25, 2005, 03:49:59 pm »

Maybe I should start mailing FSP literature to inmates at the local county jail.

Hey, we gotta recruit. Right?

Should get the attention of the local paper...


That's new members and press coverage all at once! Who supports me?
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #183 on: October 25, 2005, 04:10:45 pm »


When I speak for the FSP, I can only offer our mission statement, and perhaps hint at how it applies to a given situation.  But again: the FSP is just the bus.... Kate, you'll notice that this particular howler monkey is pretty short on concrete examples, both of our own failings and his own accomplishments.
You seem to be the one shouting with your large letters. :)
Why do you think the fsp is just the bus? Is that part of the mission statement?
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

lloydbob1

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #184 on: October 25, 2005, 04:25:32 pm »

, but more minarchist, incrementalist steps are a) happening and b) comparatively boring.  Doesn't mean they won't be the seeds of something great.

Then post some of these on the front page of the FSP website.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #185 on: October 25, 2005, 04:40:34 pm »

"Get the membership more involved" is a great idea... we all agree on it... HOW?
What I do see is some of the same old detractors piping up in their semi-regular manner, criticizing the FSP leadership (nothing new there), and once again, they have no plan just want anarchy or fundmentalism, they only want "something different".
I think you guys are looking at it backwards. Try this: How can we "allow the membership to be more involved"? You should not come up with ideas and then wonder why noone is volunteering. Volunteers are attracted to exciting organizations that do not hassle them.
The fsp doesn't need more central planning. I don't have better ideas than you. I don't recruit as well as others. But the fsp should allow those that are good at those things to have room to manuever.

What I mean by "standing in the way":
- You shoot the pleasant messenger - Friday
- Morey and Dreepa have good ideas, but you will not allow them to happen.
- Dada will be good at linking to news items, but you will not let him do it.
- Larry Fox is good at ..... well ... maybe cleaning guns

I don't expect everyone in the fsp to recruit the way I do. I just want them to have the freedom inside the org. to do it. Don't make us go around you.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

kater

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #186 on: October 25, 2005, 04:42:41 pm »

Why? I don't chose to broadcast what I'm doing.  And I don't expect anyone to look down on me for being my kind of activist.  The same goes for everyone else, I would think.
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lloydbob1

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #187 on: October 25, 2005, 04:43:46 pm »

I don't expect everyone in the fsp to recruit the way I do.
???
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #188 on: October 25, 2005, 04:48:01 pm »

If a guy who had FSP literature in his mailbox went sniper and killed innocent people, would you want us to publicize the "connection"?
Sure. The fsp is not responsible for his murders, but people will be wondering.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #189 on: October 25, 2005, 04:50:16 pm »

I don't expect everyone in the fsp to recruit the way I do.
???
I like to burn things that represent tyranny. I like to think that it attracts other activists. I cannot reveal their identities though. :)
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Dreepa

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #190 on: October 25, 2005, 04:52:46 pm »

I don't expect everyone in the fsp to recruit the way I do.
???
I like to burn things that represent tyranny. I like to think that it attracts other activists. I cannot reveal their identities though. :)
:o
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RidleyReport

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #191 on: October 25, 2005, 04:53:41 pm »

<<Yeah, news coverage that made people scared of those nutcase libertarians with their guns and meth labs.   Roll Eyes  Lol.  Come on, Dave, you can't really think that was *good* press.>>

I think for us all press is good press , except possibly when coverage goes sour in local NH circles.

<<  If a guy who had FSP literature in his mailbox went sniper and killed innocent people, would you want us to publicize the "connection"? >>

Would you want us to surpress it?

I do have thoughts as to how such things could be handled though...if I were in charge of the media coverage page I might put in a space for FSP leaders to rebutt articles we linked to.   I might also refrain from linking to an article if the subject of the article asked me to, or if folks on the forum overwhelmingly wanted it ignored.  Maybe that is not a pure or principled approach, but that is what I wish to do.
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RidleyReport

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #192 on: October 25, 2005, 04:56:13 pm »

BTW...i always think this but never say it...yet I hope those of you on each side will hear it and do it.

Gandhi always tried to fight evil systems without disliking the people behind them.  He was not against individuals.

Same with us...we need to fight for and against systems but we need to not let ourselves dislike each other.

I really like Kate and Adam even tho I am on the opposite side of this debate with them sometimes; Amanda is a blast to be around and argue with, I like Don Gorman who I never agree with on method and heck I can even tolerate the Seth Lord himself!   As long as we don't let it get too personal, we will benefit from fighting!   Where we lose is where we get angry with each other.  Kat you are just too quick to get angry at folks who don't 100% see it your way. Usually you are right in the FSP context, but you're letting it get too personal.  the same could be said for many of us.  Just have fun !
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kater

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #193 on: October 25, 2005, 05:05:00 pm »

Russell, I'm sure some reasonable part of your brain doesn't really agree with what you just wrote.  Are you honestly saying that any press is good press?

Actually, Dada just said that.  Hmm.  Wouldn't you say that press about a murderer with FSP literature might sour the coverage in local NH circles?  When we had that conference in DC, the first question asked by a reporter was about whether or not we did background checks on members to see if we were bringing dangerous criminals into the state.  We're talking about people's homes, and we're a group that (undeservedly) has a reputation for being dangerous and unfriendly.  Apart from it just being more my nature, that's one of the major reasons I chose to act simply as a citizen, by getting to know my neighbors, finding others with similar leanings, and working within the local political structure to create incremental improvement.  MY task wouldn't be made easier by the promotion of more in-your-face activism, and that's the beauty of not labeling my activism or your or anyone else's "FSP activity."  I don't want a situation in which I feel compelled to put down your activism; I want them to coexist independently.
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Klaus

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #194 on: October 25, 2005, 05:16:29 pm »


I think you guys are looking at it backwards. Try this: How can we "allow the membership to be more involved"? You should not come up with ideas and then wonder why noone is volunteering. Volunteers are attracted to exciting organizations that do not hassle them.
The fsp doesn't need more central planning. I don't have better ideas than you. I don't recruit as well as others. But the fsp should allow those that are good at those things to have room to manuever.


Just dropped in to say that I've been contacted by 12 new volunteers in the last 10 days.  Offering assistance and direction (if they want it) to those who know what they want to do.  Those who don't know what they want to do, but want to help, figuring out what their talents are and giving them something to do that hopefully they will enjoy and be good at.  Trying not to hassle them.

Got to get back to it now.

Nik

P.S.  Interested in helping?
kreuzauge@yahoo.com
612.386.0811
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