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Author Topic: Seditious Ramblings  (Read 114378 times)

Morey

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #120 on: October 24, 2005, 10:28:10 pm »

No, it's slightly closer to NH than Boston. I haven't moved because I can't afford to move while in grad school. I can't believe we're talking about my finances and my living situation on the freakin forum.
Hey, I didn't ask for details.  If your personal situation won't allow you to go until 2008, then that's what we have to deal with.  Saying you plan to buy a house straight out of college kind of makes it sound like you're set.

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Why aren't you in NH now?Are you any less dedicated to the FSP because *you* haven't moved yet?
I'm Joe Bloggs, faceless participant.  You're the bloody President of the org.  There is a big difference in how your participation affects our morale and credibility from what I do as an individual participant.  You already know all of this.  And for the record, I'll be there in '06.

How about if we turn this discussion away from individual personalities and toward the root issues of reforming the FSP?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 10:43:31 pm by Morey »
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Amanda

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #121 on: October 24, 2005, 10:58:34 pm »

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Why aren't you in NH now?Are you any less dedicated to the FSP because *you* haven't moved yet?
I'm Joe Bloggs, faceless participant.  You're the bloody President of the org.  There is a big difference in how your participation affects our morale and credibility from what I do as an individual participant.  You already know all of this.  And for the record, I'll be there in '06.

But you see, I am just like everyone else. I will move when I am able to move. My commitment was to move when the FSP reaches 20,000 participants. I am happy for and I applaud all the early movers, and I, too, will be moving before we reach 20,000. But we shouldn't be backbiting and sniping at those who are moving later than us. I don't see Cal and Karen Pratt complaining that you're moving in 2006 when they moved in 2003.They're just happy you're moving. Why all the dick waving ore who moved before whom?

How about if we turn this discussion away from individual personalities and toward the root issues of reforming the FSP?

I'd be happy to do that. I didn't make this personal, you know. Sandy brought up my personal situation, and I corrected the many mistaken assumptions. I'm more than happy to not talk about personal stuff, and it appears that Sandy dropped it.
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"The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and great nations." -- David D Friedman, The Machinery of Freedom

Amanda

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #122 on: October 24, 2005, 10:59:55 pm »

Hello all,

I haven't even begun to read the 8 pages of this thread; I've been too busy responding to phone calls and personal emails.

In regards to my remarks about Jason and Amanda, I would like to clarify that I don't for a second doubt their sincerity to the FSP. I know that they both intend to move to New Hampshire at some point.  My remarks were intended to comment on an apparent conflict between the recently announced new FSP policy of encouraging FSP participants to move as soon as possible, and the recent career changes the two of them have made.  I based my remarks on public postings each of them has made, as well as public postings I have already seen made by others. I didn't think that either of them would appreciate my remarks, but they were intended to be constructive for the FSP, not personal attacks against them as individuals. Based on private feedback I have received (like I said, I haven't even had time to read what this thread says yet), I see that I misjudged how hurtful my remarks would be.

Jason and Amanda have both given far more to the development of the FSP than I have or could. It would not even exist if not for both of them. I don't want either of them to leave, I admire and respect both of them, and I am sincerely sorry for any pain or embarassment I have caused either of them. I didn't ask them what their relocation plans were, I just speculated and then posted it publicly. It was very bad form. I apologize to both of them.

--Sandy


Thank you, that was nice of you.
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"The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and great nations." -- David D Friedman, The Machinery of Freedom

Pat K

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #123 on: October 25, 2005, 12:01:03 am »

Dick waving?= Is that one of those Harvard Law Terms?  ;D


Amanda and Jason are allowed to have personal lives. I really doubt there would be a FSP with out them and other
on the board. I don't always agree on their  we take no stand stand.But big deal. On the other hand maybe the folks
on the board will see that this little forum came alive. Maybe we can make it busy like this in a more productive way.

Maybe everyone should take a deep breath.

God I really hate being fucking reasonable. ;D

I blame that skinny bastard Varrin. ;D
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Jason Osborne ‎"Fighting for reduction of government" is kind of like smashing your dick in a car door to reduce the pain of smashing your dick in the car door, and then getting pissed at the folks who don't want to smash their dicks in car doors as if it is their fault that your dick hurts.

"I don't recommend looking towards a government building if you don't want to see indecent behavior."  --Russell Kanning

Morey

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #124 on: October 25, 2005, 12:11:58 am »

How about if we turn this discussion away from individual personalities and toward the root issues of reforming the FSP?

I'd be happy to do that.
Super.  We have several pages of commentary here, less than half of which is personal attacks and ankle biting.  I'd love to hear your take on KBCraig's excellent suggestion, the possibility of standing for elections, and communications from the back room. 

By the way, I'm glad to see you back here.

Friday

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #125 on: October 25, 2005, 12:27:35 am »

It appears I'm damned no matter what I say or do.  ;)

On the one hand, I have received delightfully`nasty email, full of personal insults the like of which I have never slung publicly *or* privately to anyone in the FSP, in response to my post. On the other hand, as soon as I posted my public apology to Jason and Amanda for any perceived personal attack, I was promptly accused of "backing off completely" from my original post.  I really wasn't kidding about not even having had time to read this thread yet. Believe it or not, I have a job, and had laundry to do.  And made some phone calls. And responded to the nasty email with far more courtesy than it deserved.

With the exception of my previously stated regret about jumping to conclusions about Jason and Amanda's personal future plans, and coming across as more hostile and aggressive towards them than I intended or feel, I stand by everything I said in my post.  It's the truth.  After various discussions, I suspect that what little hope I had that it might make a positive difference was unduly optimistic.  But I still feel it was the right thing to do, making the attempt.  :)
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KBCraig

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #126 on: October 25, 2005, 12:29:55 am »

Fine.  Start a website- NHResults.com or something.
You misunderstand my point. The publicity already happens when an activist does something to make the news. My point is: those speaking officially for FSP damage recruiting when they disavow those engaging in liberty activism. People who are interested in FSP and activism have to do a double-take whenever "corrections" are issued to the press, pointing out that activists aren't working on behalf of FSP.
Kevin
What do you think about these pages?
http://www.freestateproject.org/news/issues/
I put quite a lot of time into them.  Rather than disavowing controversial activists, I linked to them.  As both a director and the VP of Publicity, I think I am more able than most to speak officially for the FSP. ;)

Those are very good. But do they offset quotes by Amanda, or a letter to the editor by Steve Cobb, disavowing the activists you linked to? Their comments appeared in the news coverage, after all.

Kevin
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Steve

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #127 on: October 25, 2005, 12:42:15 am »

Fine.  Start a website- NHResults.com or something.
You misunderstand my point. The publicity already happens when an activist does something to make the news. My point is: those speaking officially for FSP damage recruiting when they disavow those engaging in liberty activism. People who are interested in FSP and activism have to do a double-take whenever "corrections" are issued to the press, pointing out that activists aren't working on behalf of FSP.
Kevin
What do you think about these pages?
http://www.freestateproject.org/news/issues/
I put quite a lot of time into them.  Rather than disavowing controversial activists, I linked to them.  As both a director and the VP of Publicity, I think I am more able than most to speak officially for the FSP. ;)

Those are very good. But do they offset quotes by Amanda, or a letter to the editor by Steve Cobb, disavowing the activists you linked to? Their comments appeared in the news coverage, after all.

Kevin
Funny you should bring that up: the CD page (llinked to from the Issues page) is taken directly from that very same LTE. Read it again.  While we didn't embrace these activists (we can't, since many FSP participants disapprove of the methods), but we didn't "disavow" them either.  I offered Mike Fisher to pay to make several hundred customized emery boards; personally I support him completely.
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KBCraig

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #128 on: October 25, 2005, 12:55:18 am »

I said something almost identical to the reporter, and the reporter quoted only part of what I said out of context. That particular reporter obviously had a personal agenda. (Couldn't you tell that the whole piece was slanted??)

That's perfectly believable, and my personal disgust with the journalistic process is why I never entered the field of journalism, despite having the degree.

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And thanks, Adam, for pointing KBCraig my way. Instead of making unwarranted assumptions about others, it would be helpful if we contacted each other directly about things that are bothering us.

To be honest, it never occurred to me to contact you directly. I'm fully aware of your incredible work/school/mom workload, and I'm in awe that you have any time at all for the FSP, especially travelling to speak. I salute your hard work.

Let me also say that I'm glad to see you and Jason posting here again. It's unfortunate that the forum deteriorated so badly from its purpose, but I believe JonM has it back on track. Now that the signal:crap ratio is better, the forum is again a good place for all of the leadership to let the participants know what's going on -- especially issuing correction notices, letting us know if you've been misquoted or taken out of context when you're portrayed in the press as backing away from FSP activists' activities.

Now... let's go recruit some people!

Kevin
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Friday

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #129 on: October 25, 2005, 06:01:28 am »

I received an email that said "...I will not correspond with someone if I cannot trust him or her not to publish my words and use them against me. "  I'm not sure what particular thing I said that the writer feels was a betrayal of something said in confidence in personal email.  However, it's just flat-out wrong.  Everything I wrote was based on my personal observations, my personal interactions with members of the Board and department heads, this forum, the NH Underground forum, Amanda's personal blog (which the FSP site links to), the publicly posted FSP financial statements, and face-to-face conversations with members in good standing (i.e. neither Kat nor Russell  :P ).  Anyone told otherwise is being fed bad information.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #130 on: October 25, 2005, 06:50:11 am »

The essence of leadership is not denying any problems and then telling the members "Go recruit!".
The rest of us are not more brilliant or insightful than the current leadership. We just want you to get out of the way.
Since we are not aggressive, if you keep stonewalling us, we will just ignore you and go about our work. This movement will happen with or without your help or permission.
The fsp leadership does a poor job of representing the membership, so the next time one of you stabs a wonderful activist like Lauren Canario in the back, we will have to correct it as best we can. We all represent and recruit for this movement and will do so. Since the fsp website does not properly represent the vitality and excitement of this movement, we are forced to direct people to other sources of information. The fsp leadership is unelected and does not represent us. We represent ourselves and that is how I will interact with anyone I come in contact with, including the media.

We want "liberty in our lifetime" and we will make it happen.
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kater

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #131 on: October 25, 2005, 07:12:29 am »

Russell,

You couldn't be more right: the FSP leadership doesn't represent you.  It isn't meant to.  In fact, that's the point of asking people to take credit/responsibility for their own actions--so you represent yourself.  Most importantly, as a person who's already moved to New Hampshire, your responsibility to the FSP at this point is to do what you do best: be an activist for liberty in this state.  Why you enjoy these sniper attacks on an organization that is no longer of primary concern to you is beyond me.

Kate
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #132 on: October 25, 2005, 07:42:22 am »

Guys like Amanda and Steve Cobb act like they represent us to the media often. I am going to correct that.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #133 on: October 25, 2005, 07:45:04 am »

Why you enjoy these sniper attacks on an organization that is no longer of primary concern to you is beyond me.
I want more activists to move to NH and the fsp is doing a poor job of that and is misrepresenting members. That is why I care and will do what I can to fix it.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Dreepa

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #134 on: October 25, 2005, 07:53:18 am »

/stops waving his dick around.
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