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Author Topic: Seditious Ramblings  (Read 103950 times)

JonM

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #300 on: October 31, 2005, 03:20:34 pm »

Leave the Free State?  Are you mad?!?!
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lloydbob1

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #301 on: October 31, 2005, 04:54:39 pm »

Just for a few hours, once in a while, and back to NH.  Although most of us at Hempfest were not from NH, I believe Dennis was.  Come to think of it, has anyone heard from him since?
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lloydbob1

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #302 on: October 31, 2005, 05:40:44 pm »

I'm sorry I forgot to include you as a NH person at Hempfest.  I guess you made it back to NH.
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RidleyReport

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #303 on: October 31, 2005, 07:03:25 pm »

kater wrote:

<< It was the later "discussion" attacking people personally that pissed me off.>>

*Everything* pisses you off, kate :P   
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RidleyReport

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #304 on: October 31, 2005, 07:11:20 pm »

If any of you sent me messages on this thread I've been away from it for a few days...will catch up and respond soon as I can...
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #305 on: November 01, 2005, 12:40:51 am »

I think its a little disingenuous too for the leadership to....

Caleb

Disingenuous? Is that high fallootin' polititian talk?
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Rearden

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #306 on: November 01, 2005, 01:09:06 am »


Remember, we are all working for liberty.  We are all on the same team.

Amen, Keith.  Speaking for myself, while I still check in on this forum once a week or so, 99% of my attention is focused on making a difference here in the Free State.  I'm running for local office right now, and am considering a run -- with major party support -- for a more powerful office next year.  I'm obviously still trying to help the NHLA, and I'm still trying out all the new freedoms I gained with the move.  <straps on Walther .380 ACP>

All this crying about the FSP leadership...  some of it I think is valid, and some I don't.  I think everybody that's written on this topic means well.  But at the end of the day I think it's irrelevant.  What's going to bring pro-liberty people here, whether through the FSP or not, is the early successes of those already here.  That's what I'm working on, and it's what most people here are working on in some way or another. 

Sorry, I can't spare a lot of effort or time to contribute to this discussion.  There's real work to be done here, and real progress to be made. 
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Friday

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #307 on: November 01, 2005, 07:18:08 pm »

The way you describe it, it sounds like *everyone* ignored your e-mails, and that Dada's comments were totally blown off.  Could you at least acknowledge that I generally exchange e-mail with you freely, and that I answered Dada's post with courtesy, pointing out that ALL FSP news mentions (from Google News) are already appearing on the site?  Dada himself apologized for the error.  ALL of us, me included, can name occasions when we have been insulted by others here, but it requires a very selective memory to suggest that this is the rule and not the exception.  There are a very few people here for whom invective is a normal mode of speech; you should just ignore them, and exercise your freedom of association to work only with the cooperators.

Steve, I seriously doubt that anyone besides yourself interpreted my saying "The people screaming the loudest..." to mean "everybody".  I have previously posted on the forum that I have found you to be the most responsive member of the Board to me, personally, and you still are (Jason and Jean are also good in that regard).  I wasn't referring to you in regards to Dada being insulted, I was referring to Seth.  There seems to be some "history" between them which I am not aware of. I feel badly that Seth got upset about Dada's joke, and I hope that they can work out their differences in time.  I don't think it was intended to be mean-spirited.  As for my suggesting that being insulted is the rule, once again, I don't know how you interpreted what I said that way.  As for freedom of association to work only with those I choose... works for me.  ;D
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Friday

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #308 on: November 01, 2005, 07:26:32 pm »

Sandy, please feel free to cc: me if you ever want butt fires lit.... (grin).

Thanks, Seth, I'll keep that in mind!

This one I can comment on... I was strongly in favor of adding you and others.  I was overruled by the majority opinion... When I cc:ed 'outsiders' to discussions I felt they should be part of, I was told to stop that.  I won't name names, but suffice it to say, I agree with you: yur complaint _was_ a valid one.

Thank you very much, I appreciate hearing that.

1) Some do respond on the forum.  Not everyone, but percentage-wise MOST do.
2) There are plenty of open meetings - the weekly volunteer conference call for one...
3) The entire minutes question is pointless.  Discussion isn't in the minutes and shouldn't be, except noted as 'Discussion followed'.
The vote is what matters.  If you feel that you want to know the discussion, ask someone on the board privately.  Stop asking for dirty laundry to be aired in public, it wastes your time and pissed off those who have to wear the clothes dirty or clean.

We will have to agree to disagree.
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RichW

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #309 on: November 02, 2005, 07:41:39 pm »

For my part, when I moved to NH, I pretty much washed my hands of the FSP.  Not because I hate the FSP or think that it is corrupt or worthless, just simply because the goal of the FSP is to recruit people from outside of NH to join, and since I'm already in NH, the FSP no longer applies to me.

Caleb

I don't understand this mentality.  Do you want 130 FSP'ers in NH or 1,300?  1,300 or 13,000?  13,000 or 130,000?  Do you want people to join you, or do you want to be stranded?  Recruiting new members must NEVER end.

I appreciate the efforts of the early movers.  And, I think that progress, in-state, helps to recruit new members.  But, understand, that the movement dies if we do not recruit a significant number of new members.  So, if you will pardon my advice, do what you can to change things in NH now.  But, DO NOT stop recruiting.  Run for office AND recruit.  Burn flags AND recruit.  Protest AND recruit.

Most of us disagree with the leadership about something.  So what?  Do we disagree about the concept of the FSP, that we must concentrate our numbers to be effective?  NO.  So, recruit, recruit, recruit.

Let us not let petty in-fighting derail the noble goals of our cause.  Be true to your philosophy -- self responsibility.  If someone puts up a road block before you, move around it, over it, or under it, and keep going.  Even though we are all rampant individualists, we succeed or fail as a group.  Do not forget that.  Let's put aside our differences now and work toward our common cause of individualism and liberty.

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Steve

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #310 on: November 03, 2005, 03:41:08 am »

Most of us disagree with the leadership about something.
Most of the leadership disagrees with most of the leadership about something, but the FSP is structured to permit a maximum amount of free association and self-organization.  I had to laugh at Claire's recent blog entry
http://www.clairewolfe.com/wolfesblog/00001775.html
where she criticizes "you".  Who is the you?  How can someone who professes to be a libertarian speak in collectivist terms?  The FSP collects no dues, and the "leadership" is unpaid and wields no power.  We can speak only minimally on behalf of the FSP; porcupines are as solitary an animal as cats, but their prickliness make them harder to herd.  Anybody who wants can participate and move into leadership positions; we are begging for volunteers.  The essence of the FSP's mission is coordination of libertarian activism in a manageabley small territory: what is the alternative?
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cathleeninnh

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #311 on: November 03, 2005, 09:14:22 am »

[
I appreciate the efforts of the early movers.  And, I think that progress, in-state, helps to recruit new members.  But, understand, that the movement dies if we do not recruit a significant number of new members.  So, if you will pardon my advice, do what you can to change things in NH now.  But, DO NOT stop recruiting.  Run for office AND recruit.  Burn flags AND recruit.  Protest AND recruit.



I don't think the movement dies if recruitment ends. Not that I want recruitment to end, or the FSP to stop trying. As long as ANY liberty action goes on in NH, seekers of liberty will take note and some will respond by moving. As long as ANY loss of liberty is felt elsewhere, NH will naturally attract those that want to improve their situation.

That is our appeal, an improved current and future life. As long as someone values their current situation more, they will not move. We can't attempt to devalue what someone has worked hard for and have any real success. When they come to dissatisfaction on their own, they will look for improvement. NH already has what many will be looking for.

The movement will not die.

Cathleen
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #312 on: November 03, 2005, 03:11:55 pm »

I had to laugh at Claire's recent blog entry
http://www.clairewolfe.com/wolfesblog/00001775.html
That "you" is kindof funny.
I get the feeling from many people that they would never actually move to NH even if we got to 20,000 quickly. She talks about NH being expensive. That doesn't sound like a person who is waiting for that 20,000 bell to ring and then move. It is good to hear what people's intentions are and to let them out of their commitment. The fsp's goal of moving people really separates the talkers from the freedom fighters.
Hopefully soon we can get a feel for how many people are serious about moving here and when.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

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jgmaynard

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #313 on: November 03, 2005, 04:14:27 pm »

"But without the 20,000, you're merely substituting feelgood propaganda for reality."

<Bugs Bunny voice>
Evi...dent..allly, she's never been to New Hampshire before.... At least not in de action, dere, bub.....
</Bugs Bunny voice>

20k? that's 4x overkill........ Even if the FSP reaches 1/2 that goal (10k) and only 1/2 of those people move (5k), we're still as powerful as the Dems and Repubs put together.....

JM
« Last Edit: November 03, 2005, 04:16:20 pm by jgmaynard »
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Dreepa

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #314 on: November 03, 2005, 04:46:22 pm »

"But without the 20,000, you're merely substituting feelgood propaganda for reality."

<Bugs Bunny voice>
Evi...dent..allly, she's never been to New Hampshire before.... At least not in de action, dere, bub.....
</Bugs Bunny voice>
20k? that's 4x overkill........ Even if the FSP reaches 1/2 that goal (10k) and only 1/2 of those people move (5k), we're still as powerful as the Dems and Repubs put together.....
JM

Then maybe we should change the SOI to 10K and then have phase II be 20K.
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