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Author Topic: Seditious Ramblings  (Read 102773 times)

Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2005, 10:56:09 pm »

Look at the great picture from this months cleanup.

http://underground.soulawakenings.com/tiki-index.php

 8)
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"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

5thconcerto

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2005, 11:07:26 pm »

My 2 cents worth:

 Results are the important thing. Regardless of how hard someone tries, if they are not producing the desired results, they are failing.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2005, 11:12:50 pm »

Months ago I said we were the most potentially powerful and affordable recruiting tool the FSP has ever had.

I concur.

While your operation is certainly commercial in nature, and your ultimate aim is a nice paycheck for yourself, I wish the FSP would throw some of that $30k collecting dust in their accounts at you.

Absolutely, but if someone doesn't profit from spreading Liberty, it will take forever! (and is!)

By the way, our plans to profit are long term.  We've been doing this show FOR FREE for 3 years now.  5 people put in their time for zip, zero, zilch.  We just love doing it.  Eventually, there will be profit, but we're still paying our dues.  Evey cent we have coming in right now is going back out.  I've spent well over $20,000 of personal funds on this show.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2005, 11:15:05 pm »

Oh, please. Gossip is a killer of organizations. Don't pay attention to whining and whispering and speculating, and don't engage in it. My two cents.

I don't really give a rat's ass about gossip, but when it's preventing us from working together as productively as possible, it bugs me.  I'm just listening to what I'm told, and I've been told it by multiple people.  If it was just one person, I'd chalk it up to heresay, but it's not.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2005, 11:18:07 pm »

                                                                                               
  Could you possibly do some sort of sydication of the show. I think your show would do good on Talk Radio WGOW-FM, Chattanooga, TN. and probally the Talk station out of Nashville?

CP,

   We ARE syndicated.  That's how we're on 8 stations already.  I spend all day calling stations to promote our show, private message me your location or email me at ian@freetalklive.com , and I'll give you details on helping us get on your local stations.  (This applies to everyone reading this, not just CP.)

Thanks for your interest!
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2005, 11:27:47 pm »

Ian, the reason I personally find your behaviour annoying is because you constantly hijack threads to promote yourself. 

Thanks for speaking up, Morey, but I already know you have a problem with me and you're not part of "leadership".  However, until you're able to recruit at the level I can, all you're doing is sniping.  I suppose if I wasn't promoting my show (I don't promote myself.), you'd like me a lot more, but then our membership recruiting would be down!  Oh well, keep being angry!  In the meantime, those of you who want to do something other than snipe should really consider joining AMP:  http://amp.freetalklive.com .

Quote
Yes, your recruitment cost of  $40-60 per member (not counting member donations) is pretty good.  Maybe we should try some other libertarian talk shows.

Let me know when you find a talk show where 100% of the hosts are FSP members, let alone principled Libertarians.  We're bigger than Harry Browne's show, and there are no other true Libertarians that are syndicated, to my knowledge.

Fact is, NO other show can provide this opportunity.

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  But there are also a lot of people who never listen to talk radio.  Diverse outreach efforts are a good thing.

I agree, but I'm still waiting to see if any of those outreach efforts have as good of an ROI, or as much potential as we do.  We are only on 8 stations.  Imagine 80, 200, or 400 stations airing the FSP message, and the FSP STILL getting this dirt cheap rate.  No one else will do that.  I suppose it's possible, and if you can prove it, I'll eat my words.  Until then, we're the best deal the FSP has ever seen.

Thanks for the thoughts!
http://amp.freetalklive.com
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KBCraig

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2005, 01:30:33 am »

Look at the great picture from this months cleanup.

http://underground.soulawakenings.com/tiki-index.php

 8)

Well, let's see who was out there "defaming" the FSP through an adopt-a-highway cleanup:

A candidate for Congress from NH.

A freedom-loving activist who moved across the country, put her livelihood and freedom on the line, was arrested, spent a couple of weeks in jail, and made national news.

Her husband, who was in the news along with her.

A large, shambling, furtive, giggling UFO who made the news (and jail) by standing up for the freedom to travel without government permission.

His wife, who was the "victim" of the Outlaw Manicurist.

A couple I don't recognize, whom I'm sure are perfectly nice people.

And, one crotchety old curmudgeon who suffers the younger generations (and their blasting music) to promote the Free State at every opportunity. And who's been known to drive around with a nine foot joint.  ;)

The FSP's goal is to get people to NH to engage in liberty-loving activities however they choose. But the official FSP response to the actions above? "We have no comment. We take no position. They do not speak for the FSP."

Gee, what's wrong with, "While the FSP doesn't endorse any particular cause or action, we cheer freedom-loving activists who choose to get involved and make a difference in their communities."

Would that be so horrible? Would it contaminate the purity of the FSP's official non-involvement?

As for keeping participants informed, I've never received a single email or snail-mail from the organization. Not that I've wanted any, because I'm an active forum participant, checking in daily. Heck, I've never even gotten the FSP vinyl decal I ordered and paid for over two months ago!

I understand what it's like to be an officer in an all-volunteer organization of die-hard individualists (trust me!). Members scream and beg for information. Why is it so difficult to provide?

I used to check the FSP forums every couple of hours; now it's every couple of days. The crap:signal ratio just got unbearable. While the NHunderground forums might seem clicquish, it's a clicque with open membership. C'mon in, the water's fine (and in Keene, it's deep!)

Kevin
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Morey

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2005, 02:30:04 am »

Transparency ... ask a question Morey.
Jean, I want to know everything. From the expenditures (not just a high level budget), to the planning, to the strategy.  I want myself, and every other participant to be able to view the organizers list archives.

Thank you for taking time to list some of your activities.  The fact that you have moved and that you do participate here gives you more credibility than others in my mind.  But I'm still obviously unhappy with your answers.

Every couple of months we have a leader criticism thread ("A pivotal question", "Leadership on sabbatical", "FSP Board should submit to recall vote", etc.) and nothing ever comes of it.  Are we, the activists who care enough to visit the forum on a regular basis, being blown off as just some "vocal minority", not to be taken seriously?

KBCraig

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2005, 03:17:05 am »

Are we, the activists who care enough to visit the forum on a regular basis, being blown off as just some "vocal minority", not to be taken seriously?

From what we've seen, the "participants" are largely ethereal. My WAG is that at least half (probably 3/4ths) of the SOI signers thought it sounded cool, signed on, and disappeared. That makes the 20k goal simply silly. What counts is those who are willing to participate, not fill in some forms.

Kevin
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2005, 06:45:19 am »

Jean, I want to know everything. From the expenditures (not just a high level budget), to the planning, to the strategy.  I want myself, and every other participant to be able to view the organizers list archives.

Every couple of months we have a leader criticism thread ("A pivotal question", "Leadership on sabbatical", "FSP Board should submit to recall vote", etc.) and nothing ever comes of it.  Are we, the activists who care enough to visit the forum on a regular basis, being blown off as just some "vocal minority", not to be taken seriously?
Good ideas. We can give the current leadership a little while to open everything up and submit themselves to vote. If not, then we have to take our organization back.
The goal of the fsp is to change NH the us and the world for the better. Lets see if we can clean up our own org 1st. :)
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

lloydbob1

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2005, 07:24:48 am »

My 2 cents worth:

 Results are the important thing. Regardless of how hard someone tries, if they are not producing the desired results, they are failing.

Yes, for whatever reason the recruiting numbers suck. :-X
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2005, 07:49:57 am »

I think the fsp can function much like the Open Source Software world does. Total volunteerism works well. We don't need any specific leaders, just a goal. We already have a perfectly good mission statement and such. Let's just do it. :)
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

JasonPSorens

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2005, 08:29:35 am »

I don't really give a rat's ass about gossip, but when it's preventing us from working together as productively as possible, it bugs me.  I'm just listening to what I'm told, and I've been told it by multiple people.  If it was just one person, I'd chalk it up to heresay, but it's not.

Let me get this straight. Your client has discussions about the pros and cons of retaining your services, and because someone may or may not have criticized certain aspects of your show as part of that process, you want to call them out on the carpet and hold some kind of public inquisition? Disgustingly inappropriate.

I might add that reaming your client in public is not a great sign of intelligence.

For everyone else, this is exactly the reason why some leadership conversations need to be private, and why all decent non-profits (Cato, Reason, LNC, etc.) have private Board meetings. People need to be able to express honest opinions without having the gossip faction tear them a new one.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2005, 08:33:40 am »

Gee, what's wrong with, "While the FSP doesn't endorse any particular cause or action, we cheer freedom-loving activists who choose to get involved and make a difference in their communities."

We do that! All the time! Just look at the website! We report on everything positive that happens.

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As for keeping participants informed, I've never received a single email or snail-mail from the organization.

Well, that must be your fault. Emails go out on the 15th of every month.
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"Hagrid"

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Re: Seditious Ramblings
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2005, 08:43:49 am »

As for keeping participants informed, I've never received a single email or snail-mail from the organization.

Gee, aren't you getting the monthly, like CLOCKWORK on the 15th, newsletter?  Brian spends a lot of time on it, and I make sure it goes out the door.    http://www.freestateproject.org/news/fspnews/

It goes to 10K email addresses, so perhaps it's time to sign up...

Quote
I understand what it's like to be an officer in an all-volunteer organization of die-hard individualists (trust me!). Members scream and beg for information. Why is it so difficult to provide?

There is far more screaming for heads than for information... IMHO.

Frankly, the FSP is being hurt on every front by its radical fringe who are more vocal than anyone else, and they are too 'individualist' to see it.  This entire thread is part of the symptoms of the problem.  It's not new, and the problem is ongoing.  I'm not saying FSP leadership is perfect... by any means.  I'm an active and vocal critic at times... but I also know when it's effective and when it's just noise and fury for the sake of flames. 

Without getting personal, that's about all I'll say of anyone in this thread.  And no, I'm not getting personal... far too many others are, and I have lost what little respect for them I had left.

BTW, those of us truly active IN the open source world (grep the linux kernel source, how many FSPers are listed?  At least one - me) are well aware that "open source" is NOT the model to in use for FSP leadership.  But hey, I'm sure it sounded good to those who want anarchy... and think that Open Source uses it... but Open Source is more often benevolent dictatorship than any other model.... ask Linus.  [Edited Corrected - some might say we use Open Source leadership methods now.... we have forks - a vocal minority who want to steer things differently who have split off;  People doing whatever they want when and if it scratches their itch.... regardless of whether it moves the project forward or is scalable or good practices.... and a volunteer and exhausted leadership who tries to steer things in a benevolent way... and lots of people bitching that someone else should fix the bugs instead of stepping up and coding a patch themselves to fix the bug...  Yup, sounds like a typical Open Source project.]  I stand by my statement that it is NOT the model we should be using.... even to the extent we are now.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 08:56:18 am by SethCohn »
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