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Author Topic: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!  (Read 12122 times)

Mark in OC

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Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« on: October 04, 2005, 12:27:01 pm »

Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!  ???

Michael Moore sent out an email detailing the relief efforts being run in New Orleans. While at the end of the letter he uses his work as a slap in the face of our current President and government, I believe he unwittingly gives much needed fuel as to why we need to get rid of the corrupt, special interest infested two party system and go Libertarian. Here is his letter and my response I emailed back to him.  I've posted the same thing in my blog.

10/4/05

Friends,

My staff has been down in New Orleans and on the Gulf Coast for nearly a month now setting up and running our own relief effort with Veterans for Peace. The overwhelming response from so many of you has directly affected the lives of thousands of people. Here's what we've been able to do with your help:

** Over 500 tons of food, water, clothing, medical supplies, baby products, feminine hygiene products, cleaning supplies, power tools, and a boat and trailer for reaching those still flooded by water have been distributed directly to those in need

** Over 10,000 aid packages have been sent by you via UPS and FedEx to our camp and distributed

** Over two million dollars in donations, food, water, and supplies have been sent and distributed

** Tractor trailers, dozens of 20 foot trucks, six school buses, and other vehicles arrived loaded with supplies. Most stayed on to help distribute donations

** Over 200 chainsaws, 100 generators and 2,000 gallons of bleach have been distributed

** Over 100 people were walked through the FEMA application process

** Doctors, Physician's Assistants, Nurse Practitioners, Psychologists, Registered Nurses, LPNs, Paramedics, Emergency Medical Technicians, and Social Workers have volunteered from across the country and joined forces to create several mobile medical units providing prescription medication, first aid supplies, diabetic testing equipment, insulin and tetanus shots for those digging through the rubble of their homes

** 14 people were reunited with their families

But beyond all these statistics are the personal testimonies of what my staff has witnessed. Electricity was provided to a family whose young son suffers from Cystic Fibrosis, allowing him to continue his treatment until electricity in his neighborhood was restored. A 60 year old woman on a respirator was found, still in her home despite a gaping hole in the roof. We patched the roof and gave her food and water. Supplies were delivered to the Houma Indians, who had received no help (not even a visit) from the Red Cross or FEMA. A roof was put on their Cultural Center in Golden Meadows and a generator was provided to keep a years supply of seafood from spoiling in the sun. A man in Lefitte was found sitting on his porch, the house surrounded by four feet of water. A canoe-load of supplies was paddled to his doorstep by two of our volunteers. New Orleans evacuees joined our efforts. They served as our guides, leading us through now decimated communities and taking us to the areas of greatest need.

You can read more of these in the diaries on my website.  www.michaelmoore.com

The harsh truth that I must report to you is that the federal government and Red Cross relief efforts are still a disorganized, embarrassing mess with little or no help reaching most people -- this more than a month after Katrina. It is the freelance guerilla efforts like ours that are getting through. We aren't waiting for approval and we aren't stopping. We will make sure Bush and Co. pay for their failure later, but right now hundreds of thousands are homeless, hungry and in need of medical attention. And the rest of us have a responsibility to help them.

We have joined forces with Saving Our Selves Katrina (S.O.S.), an organization that began as a temporary coalition of pre-existing community organizations. They are doing amazing work with volunteers and believe that concrete aid from community church-based organizations must fill the gaps when the government fails us. They have become, with your help, a bright light offering immediate relief to the families who have lost everything. Find out what SOS and other similar relief groups need, right now, from you.

Thanks again, everyone, for lending a hand. We won't give up and we know you won't either.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.michaelmoore.com


Michael:
This is a great testimony of why we need government (Dems and Reps) out of our lives as much as possible. Michael, you are proof positive of the resourcefulness of the individual and what they can achieve when people ban together in times of trouble. This is the very spirit of the Libertarian Party platform and the free market. While it is in good form to lay the blame on Bush and the Republican Party, I hope you realize that the Democrats and John Kerry would be just a pitiful in this type of situation. Please consider using your influence on riding this contry of both these parties and putting the government back into the hands of the people, not special interest groups of the wealthy two party system.

Keep up the good work!
Mark in OC
http://kramjam.blogspot.com

I think everyone here should thank Mikey and urge him to vote libertarian.  ;D
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Tracy Saboe

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2005, 09:20:17 pm »

It could happen I guess.

But Michael Moore has always been an unprincipled Democratic Party Hack. 

Tracy
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GT

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2005, 06:23:36 pm »

Quote
Michael Moore has always been an unprincipled Democratic Party Hack

Yep.
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LfeLbrtyHppnss

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2005, 09:42:55 pm »

If Michael Moore is considered to be a libertarian, that doesn't speak well for the rest of us.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2005, 07:46:48 am »

Actually I even liked parts of this 9/11 movie. Just not the parts about how the government needs to spend more money. :)
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Dreepa

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2005, 08:29:06 am »

Milkey also like to lie a lot just like the politicians.... he also does not like guns.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2005, 10:16:09 am »

In the 9/11 video his answer to anything bad was "elect a democrat"  ::)
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"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

LfeLbrtyHppnss

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2005, 10:45:07 am »

In the 9/11 video his answer to anything bad was "elect a democrat"  ::)

That's because Michael Moore is just another moron with a video camera who plays off of the apathy and relative anger of the "common man".  He serves only to reinforce the false stereotype that democrats care for the "poor" and republicans care for the "rich".  Once the people realize that neither of these political groups care for anyone but themselves and their own selfish pursuit of power, perspectives might be drastically changed.

And, I'm sorry...I'm certainly no staunch supporter of the current administration, but Moore's 9/11 movie was the most idiotic representation of American military forces I think I've ever seen.  His anti-American bias and his desire to see the "American empire" fail is truly revolting. 

Imagine this scenario:  I come to your house for 6-8 months with a few camera crews and I video tape everything you and your family do from sunrise to sunset, good and bad, happy and sad moments.  At the end, I go back to the editing room and I edit out all of the positive moments of your day, and compile an hour and a half long "documentary" of your life called "The Rape of the American Family" which has chronogically shown the viewer all of the negative aspects of your personal life without the many more numerous positive moments.  I market the video to a bunch of whiney socialist kids whose parents are paying for them to go to college and claim you are an evil person with a shitty family and a bad attitude.  In addition, I go overseas to France and Germany and I market the video tape there, making sure to promote the video as "a sample study of the average American home", so that they now believe that this is how the vast majority of American households act.  Is this an accurate representation of your life?  I think not.  The same parallel can be drawn with Moore's 9/11 flop.

LLH
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2005, 10:53:04 am »

" His anti-American bias and his desire to see the "American empire" fail is truly revolting. "

I think he likes america and would be ok with an empire if a democrat was running it and there was lots of welfare and jobs protection for those living here.
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"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Rocketman

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2005, 01:51:27 pm »

LLH, can you seriously be defending our country's imperialist foreign policy?  We have troops stomping around in 130+ countries, and our own country is rapidly becoming an Orwellian police state.  Aside from the founding documents, all of which seem to have been displaced by the Pledge of Allegiance, what aspect of the American empire can you seriously defend?  Our sporadic enforcement of the Bill of Rights is the only thing that keeps our current tyrants from fully becoming Big Brother.  (Well, that and the fact that the U.S. still has lots of people like Russell who live as if government doesn't exist, hoping and praying it will one day disappear.  ;D)

That said, I have no use for Michael Moore, who is neither libertarian nor hero.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2005, 01:54:18 pm by Rocketman »
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BrianMcCandliss

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2005, 01:17:17 am »

Oh please-- Moore is saying simply "WE NEED TO THROW MORE MONEY AT THE PROBLEM-- INSTEAD OF TO THE RICH!"

When did he ever say different?
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LfeLbrtyHppnss

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2005, 09:42:05 am »

LLH, can you seriously be defending our country's imperialist foreign policy?  We have troops stomping around in 130+ countries, and our own country is rapidly becoming an Orwellian police state.  Aside from the founding documents, all of which seem to have been displaced by the Pledge of Allegiance, what aspect of the American empire can you seriously defend?  Our sporadic enforcement of the Bill of Rights is the only thing that keeps our current tyrants from fully becoming Big Brother.  (Well, that and the fact that the U.S. still has lots of people like Russell who live as if government doesn't exist, hoping and praying it will one day disappear.  ;D)

That said, I have no use for Michael Moore, who is neither libertarian nor hero.


While I recognize the over-extension of America in the world, I refuse to accept the laissez-faire attitude that we haven't the right nor the obligation to protect some of these regions.  In principle, I agree with you - let me get that out in the open to begin with.  In practice, however, we must take into consideration the impact it would have not only ourselves but the world if we were to pack up our bags and isolate ourselves as we once were before World War II.  I hardly consider America an "imperialist power", anyways.  The only thing you may consider "imperial" about us is our refusal to bow to corrupt institutions such as the United Nations when making important decisions for our national security.

I am sick and tired of people constantly pointing out the negative aspects of American unipolarity, without taking into consideration the fact that is AMERICA that was the force of stabilization in the world after 1945, and once again after 1989/91.  Yes, America is over-stretched.  Yes, America needs to reconsider its current foreign policy initiatives in the Middle East and East Asia.  Just remember, the vast majority of "imperialist endeavors" you speak of are a direct attempt on the part of AMERICA to protect our allies and ourselves.  Our nuclear curtain over France and Germany, South Korea, and arguably Japan are primary examples of this trend.  It is our presence in these regions that prevent tyrants from rekindling past conflicts.  It is our presence in these regions that has stimulated massive economic growth and prosperity for millions of people who were once starving and poor.  It is our presence in these regions that allow for a relatively unified democratic alliance of nations which we can all hope will breed a new stability in the world - after, of course, we wipe these Islamo-fascist morons off the face of the Earth.

I believe that all too many of us (Americans) are jaded by the cold hard reality of the War on Terror, and the Bush administrations total mishandling of the effort after our invasion of Afghanistan.  I really, truly want to agree with you and say "You're right, maybe America should just mind it's own business".  I just cannot accept that to be a libertarian is to be a pacifist isolationist.  If I'm wrong, and these two key elements are an intrinsic part of what it means to be a lover of liberty and freedom in all its forms, than I'm even more confused than when I denounced the Republican party for their betrayal of the American people. 

In many areas, I TOTALLY agree.  Look at the massive amounts of manufacturing jobs and industries that we are outsourcing to China.  The reason, of course, is that we are friendly to them because they are the ones who are paying our deficits.  Chinese bureaucrats have the American economy's "balls in a vice", so to speak. 

I'm certainly against intrusive government activities.  I think the Bush administration, in particular, recognized an opportunity to consolidate their hold on the institutions of our government, and they took it.  Now we must face the fact that the party that I grew up to hear say "we are the party of small government" is anything but.  It is sad, but we must learn to take the negative with the positive. Whether or not you personally support "our country's imperial foreign policy" or not, the fact is - we are out there, fighting the good fight, and these soldiers (who number 2000 dead as of today) need the support of the people at home.  Does that make me a "Republican" for stating the obvious?  I think not.
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jgmaynard

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2005, 12:08:34 am »

With all due respect, lfe...... The arguments you make above for interventionism sound an awful lot like the arguments that were made 2,000 years ago by the Romans. I'm not trying to be glib, but these events have transpired before.....  :-\

JM
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Old Nick

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2005, 09:10:14 am »

LLH, you keep bouncing from one point to another. One moment you sound like a cold-minded, hard-liner real politik isolationist Buchananite [my persuasion, just so you know], and the next you sound like a starry-eyed, bleeding heart, multiculturalist Wilsonian/Neocon asswipe. Do correct me if I'm wrong on that, please, but just make up your damned mind already.


And screw the "United Nations".
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BrianMcCandliss

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Re: Michael Moore, Libertarian Hero!?!
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2005, 07:14:13 am »


While I recognize the over-extension of America in the world, I refuse to accept the laissez-faire attitude that we haven't the right nor the obligation to protect some of these regions.  In principle, I agree with you - let me get that out in the open to begin with.  In practice, however, we must take into consideration the impact it would have not only ourselves but the world if we were to pack up our bags and isolate ourselves as we once were before World War II. 

This perpetuates the fallacious statist propaganda, that the US was peacefully minding its own business under "isolationism," which was actually complacency-- while the big, bad EVIL Fascists, Japanese and Nazis-- OH MY!-- were preparing to attack, invade and conquer us-- the richest, most war-capable and most well-armed nation on earth.
Sorry, but this is BULLSHIT!
In reality, Germany was after Stalin-- and history proves that they were RIGHT to do it; but the doctrine of "vae victus--" i.e. self-fulfiling logic-- shows that the Third Reich Nazis were a force sent by Satan to conquer all that is good and right, and so FDR was on a Mission from God to stop them.
We even had the kangaroo post-war Nuremberg trials to prove it-- despite that the defendants were railroaded, and similar war-crimes were perpetrated by ALL sides in the war.

"Woe to the vanquished."

Meanwhile, Japan was after the natural resources in China-- which was not a US ally. Rather, FDR wanted "in" on the war in Europe, but over 75% of Amewricans didn't--  and so he trumped up an excuse by:
(1 forming secret pacts with England to support their declaration of war (don't insult your intelligence-- or mine-- by pretending that "lend-lease" etc. was just an after-thought-- or that the Brits were fully intent on going it alone prior); and
2) squeezing Japan via competing their oil-resources on behalf of the Rockefellers, while ignoring Japan's pleas for peace, until war became their only alternative.

War naturally converts productive assets into destructive ones, and hence is practical statist profit-venture. Simply put, it was entirely unprofitable for the Germans OR the Japanese to make or declare war on the US-- they weren't stupid; however FDR's covert actions deliberately left them with no choice.

As for "crimes against humanity:" this is simply the price of statism, which results within all totalitarian regimes The US cannot play "humanity police" to the world-- the Constitution not only doesn't permit it, while crime is a legal designation-- not a subjective one-- and can only be prevented where such laws exist-- with viable and prescribed means of enforcement.

Rather, the term "crimes against humanity" is simply a buzz-word preceding a "mission from God," i.e. a carte blanche to transcend the sovereignty of other nations over their domestic-policy issues.

To suggest that Hitler could have taken over the USSR-- and Japan taken over China-- and turned them against the US, is complete foil-hat paranoid insanity-- particularly in comparision to the fact that our ALLY-- one Joseph Stalin-- did PRECISELY that, and BECAUSE of our our interventions.

And indeed, if such ever actually did threaten, then our best option would be to organize inside-resistance inside these nations, helping them to win their own freedom, rather than sacrificing our blood and resources. 
Hower instead, we assisted a villain in suppressing his own people--  the deceptive grounds of telling the American people that the Soviets chose to live in such a fashion!

But does the US admit looking like a complete jackass, because of this unwanted interference? Nope-- they hail it as a glorious victory against evil-- and curse anyone who wanted to stay out of it, as cowards and fools!

Thus we truly see that history is written by the victors-- and embraced by the sheep.

Let's face it: the Civil War turned the US into a corporate-statist empire, and such an entity cannot survive except via imperialism; when power becomes centralized, and military conscription hence becomes legal, it's easy to find an excuse for war.

FDR, knowing full-well that history is written by the victors, had no problem in using any means necessary to hoodwink the US into the war-- and the current pro-WWII sentiment held by most Americans (i.e. FOOLS), proves that FDR was right-- about history being written by the victors, that is.

As to whether the US should have gotten involved in WWII: we should NOT have, since it was against the will of the American people-- PERIOD--  and therefore it's not a democracy if one lone demagogue can successfully thwart it via duplicity, and thereafter be embraced as a righteous hero.

Whether we're simply better off for getting into WWII-- aside from the "demagogue-hijacked democracy" thing:
it's self-fulfilling to suggest that we are, when the evidence following the Cold War reveals more global devastation from communism, than ever would have likely transpired from the Germans or the Japanese.

However, there's no excuse for hijacked democracy-- even if the evidence in favor of "positive benefits" from such, WASN'T purely manufactured. The ends do NOT justify the means-- particularly when the ends were purely speculative.

However history is, once again, written by the victors to support  evidence such ends, by manufacturing such evidence in its favor during hindsight-- and so it's definitely no excuse, unless one believes in tyranny. There's no such thing as a physical victor, who thinks he doesn't also have a moral victory-- or that the war was for nothing; the megalomaniacal, war-mentality ego, just couldn't handle it.

And tyranny is the inevitable result of centralized government: there is no such thing as a "benevolent dictatorship." Power doesn't just corrupt: it IS corrupt!

It's time for the states to take back their individual sovereignty-- which is, after all, theirs by law. The Civil War was illegal, and hence its policy-precedents void by duress and deception.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2005, 07:39:30 am by BrianMcCandliss »
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