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Author Topic: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project  (Read 14932 times)

maxxoccupancy

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2006, 12:40:21 am »

Hey, this is the friendly forum.  I am still facing a lot of flak from members who don't understand what I am suggesting.

More importantly, if you want other people to feel motivated, you can't just shoot down their ideas and give them a hard time for making suggestions.  People feel a sense of ownership with their ideas, and when you reject them without consideration, the proponents of those ideas feel personally attacked.  When you tell people to keep quiet or that you don't want to here their suggestions, it creates rifts within the group.  I think that your last comment comes off almost as personal, and I think you were out of line to suggest that a Western FSP shouldn't even be discussed.

If you want this project to work, listen to what people say, and take their ideas to heart.  The people who are splintering the FSP are the ones who are tearing down other people's ideas, not the ones who are suggesting that we openly discuss an alternate state.

--Max
« Last Edit: April 02, 2006, 01:14:22 am by maxxoccupancy »
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2006, 01:29:37 am »

I think maybe we should scrap the NH fsp idea and go for something else. Since weather is a factor, I think we should discuss a WesternFSP that focuses on California.
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David Wolfe

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2006, 01:49:19 am »

I think maybe we should scrap the NH fsp idea and go for something else. Since weather is a factor, I think we should discuss a WesternFSP that focuses on California.

According to the official forum clock you missed April Fool's day by 29 minutes and 37 seconds.  Good try though.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2006, 07:36:27 am »

I live on NH standard time now. (Part of the secession movement)
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

lloydbob1

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2006, 07:53:10 am »

Hey, this is the friendly forum.  I am still facing a lot of flak from members who don't understand what I am suggesting.

More importantly, if you want other people to feel motivated, you can't just shoot down their ideas and give them a hard time for making suggestions.  People feel a sense of ownership with their ideas, and when you reject them without consideration, the proponents of those ideas feel personally attacked.  When you tell people to keep quiet or that you don't want to here their suggestions, it creates rifts within the group.  I think that your last comment comes off almost as personal, and I think you were out of line to suggest that a Western FSP shouldn't even be discussed.

If you want this project to work, listen to what people say, and take their ideas to heart.  The people who are splintering the FSP are the ones who are tearing down other people's ideas, not the ones who are suggesting that we openly discuss an alternate state.

--Max

When are you leaving the country?
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kater

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2006, 09:17:43 am »

Hey, this is the friendly forum.  I am still facing a lot of flak from members who don't understand what I am suggesting.

More importantly, if you want other people to feel motivated, you can't just shoot down their ideas and give them a hard time for making suggestions.  People feel a sense of ownership with their ideas, and when you reject them without consideration, the proponents of those ideas feel personally attacked.  When you tell people to keep quiet or that you don't want to here their suggestions, it creates rifts within the group.  I think that your last comment comes off almost as personal, and I think you were out of line to suggest that a Western FSP shouldn't even be discussed.

If you want this project to work, listen to what people say, and take their ideas to heart.  The people who are splintering the FSP are the ones who are tearing down other people's ideas, not the ones who are suggesting that we openly discuss an alternate state.

--Max

Max,

In the spirit of this section, I mean this in the friendliest way possible: it is illogical to demand that your ideas be discussed regardless of whether or not others feel they have merit.  The flak you are catching is not personally aimed, and I don't even believe that it's just knee-jerk defensiveness.  It's a legitimate response to your idea, and sometimes that's what happens to an idea in a meritocracy.  In fact, believing that all ideas must be discussed without negativity sounds a lot more like a socialist ideal than a libertarian (pro-competition) one.

Again, I'm only trying to explain a reaction which seems baffling to you.  Without delving too much into the arguments, I think it suffices to say once upon a time, the FSP was about reaching 5,000 to choose a state, and after that mark, it became about reaching 20,000 to move to the state that was chosen.  Recruitment has been slow for the last couple of years, but in the long list of reasons I could write, "wrong state" would not appear for two reasons: 1) I don't believe it is a bad state, and more importantly, 2) for those who want to use the FSP to achieve our goal, the state is very nearly immaterial.  It's the concentration; it's not New Hampshire.  NH was chosen as a fine launching pad, but it's the number of activists who make it the Free State.  If someone moves here (or won't move here) purely because of the weather, the predominant party, the proximity to Boston, or any such nonsense, it seems to me that they're being distracted from the only real reason to pack that moving truck: us.

I'm sorry that you seem unhappy with your new state, but all I can say is that, on a cold day or a hot one, in traffic on 93S or in the middle of nowhere, picture thousands of activists who've been outnumbered everywhere else coming together here.  Protesting in Keene.  Lobbying in Concord.  Swelling the ranks of CNHT, GONH, the NHLA, the LSF, the LP, the RLC, and any other organization fighting on the side of right.  Getting into a debate in the NH primary and asking presidential candidates the *real* questions on television where the rest of the country can hear them.  With those of us who've come and those of us who are coming, how could this place be anything but the right choice?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2006, 09:19:18 am by kater »
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lloydbob1

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2006, 11:08:41 am »

Happy Spring Kater :-*
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Pat K

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2006, 07:25:11 pm »

Damn, Lloyd is being nice and even threw a kiss, it must be Spring fever.
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jgmaynard

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2006, 10:22:09 pm »

The presidential election here is something unlike what anyone who has not seen it can imagine.... It's weeks of metting presidential candidates in restaurants, libraries, schools, etc. Just one day last election, I could have met Edwards, Lieberman and Clark all on the same day. I chose to just go listen to Clark, but the chance is there.

JM
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kater

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2006, 01:05:41 pm »

Right back at you, Lloyd.  ;)
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anticorp

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2006, 11:07:41 pm »

Quote
  Getting into a debate in the NH primary and asking presidential candidates the *real* questions on television where the rest of the country can hear them.
Quote

Certainly one big advantage ... with lots of potential!
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2006, 12:56:27 pm »

The presidential election here is something unlike what anyone who has not seen it can imagine.... It's weeks of metting presidential candidates in restaurants, libraries, schools, etc. Just one day last election, I could have met Edwards, Lieberman and Clark all on the same day. I chose to just go listen to Clark, but the chance is there.

JM
So how many presidential candidates can you protest in one day? 8)
Where do people hang out to hide from all those polititians and fawning media?
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"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Russell Kanning

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2006, 12:58:02 pm »

Oh BTW I still think Max's idea is ........ flawed.

But we could hold a Send Off party for you when you leave.  :D
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

jgmaynard

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2006, 11:23:26 pm »

The presidential election here is something unlike what anyone who has not seen it can imagine.... It's weeks of metting presidential candidates in restaurants, libraries, schools, etc. Just one day last election, I could have met Edwards, Lieberman and Clark all on the same day. I chose to just go listen to Clark, but the chance is there.

JM
So how many presidential candidates can you protest in one day? 8)

Since BOTH the Ds and Rs will be having real primaries in 2008, maybe six on a good day?  8)

Quote
Where do people hang out to hide from all those polititians and fawning media?

If you ain't in your house, you're going to run into crowds, candidates and media.

More chance to protest, Russ :d

JM
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lloydbob1

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Re: Friendly news from the Free Montana Project
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2006, 07:03:05 am »

I'll be in Keene, so, I'll just hide out in Lindy's all day and avoid the polititions.
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