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Author Topic: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists  (Read 137851 times)

J’raxis 270145

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #75 on: February 10, 2008, 08:51:09 pm »

overall, I like christians, I used to be one in name only. . . I find most of them to be polite and kind.  Same with Mormons, never met a mormon that I didn't like as a person.  It's unfortunate that I have friends that will fight (correctly in my opinion) for the rights of homosexuals.  > .  but they think mormons are disgusting creatures with mental deficiencies. . .and should be removed from the planet.

And there are religious types that think homosexuals are disgusting creatures with mental deficiencies. Bigots everywhere. I’ve known plenty of atheists who think that because science is factually correct and backed up by evidence it means the viewpoint can be forced upon others, e.g., people involved in the Darwinism vs. Creationism debates. (And that’s why I say just get rid of the damned public schools—then no one has to worry about the Other Side educating their children wrong.)
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #76 on: February 10, 2008, 10:20:06 pm »

I don't think that intolerance has anything to do with faith.  I think that this is another stereotype being pushed by the media, Hollywood, etc.  I think that politicians are deliberately pandering to this prejudice, and I think that this is something that needs to be pointed out.
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2008, 07:12:39 pm »

I don't think that intolerance has anything to do with faith.  I think that this is another stereotype being pushed by the media, Hollywood, etc.  I think that politicians are deliberately pandering to this prejudice, and I think that this is something that needs to be pointed out.

Far too many religions have intolerance written directly into their holy texts for that argument to make any sense.
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008klm

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #78 on: February 11, 2008, 09:43:39 pm »

So homosexuals are fine, but not Christians?  ???
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #79 on: February 11, 2008, 09:53:37 pm »

So homosexuals are fine, but not Christians?  ???

That’s the second time you concluded that from posts which said nothing of the sort. Where are you getting this from?
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Keyser Soce

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2008, 09:57:44 pm »

So homosexuals are fine, but not Christians?  ???

Everyone is fine as long as they aren't trying to shove their agenda down my throat. That goes for both the gay agenda and the christian agenda. People have every right to be gay or christian and apparently the two are not mutually exclusive. They can do what they want in their house and for that matter in public (I have no right not to be offended and neither do you). The line is when anyone uses force to promote their views or asks the government to do it for them.

 I said force and left out fraud since some would say that promoting any religion is fraud. This is clearly the wrong thread to go further into the subject. Suffice it to say that I doubt you would find anyone looking to violate your right to freedom of religion and most of us would fight for it with you, even the non-believers. Would you do the same for us?
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"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain

J’raxis 270145

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #81 on: February 12, 2008, 12:29:15 am »

So homosexuals are fine, but not Christians?  ???

Everyone is fine as long as they aren't trying to shove their agenda down my throat. That goes for both the gay agenda and the christian agenda. People have every right to be gay or christian and apparently the two are not mutually exclusive. They can do what they want in their house and for that matter in public (I have no right not to be offended and neither do you). The line is when anyone uses force to promote their views or asks the government to do it for them.

Exactly. I myself am an atheist but have no issue with religious people—unless they try to force it on me or others, or use their religious values (beyond values resembling the NAP/ZAP) to negatively judge myself, others, or other value systems.


[The post I made which I think started all this confusion—taking to task the person describing the FSP as “godly” and modern society’s problem as “hedonism”—is not only a gross misrepresentation of what the FSP is, but is the sort of judgmental behavior from religious believers that I will always speak up against.]
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008klm

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #82 on: February 12, 2008, 01:58:23 pm »

Gotta say it.  Acceptance of homosexual behaviour is inappropriate in both the new and old testaments of the Holy Bible.  Christianity and homosexuality are mutually exclusive.  The practice of homosexuality is an abomination before God.  Christians are to love the sinner but hate the sin.   God may be testing the homosexual, but Christians are to counsel him (her) 3 times and then must leave/avoid him (her) if they remain unrepentent in their sin.   Part of freedom is freedom of association.   If someone wishes not to associate with someone else, that is as important a freedom as freedom of religion, since being forced (by the state) to associate with someone who is unrepentent is the same as the establishment of a state religion and the barring of their freedom of religion.  Informal (self-imposed) sanctions prevent me from displaying heterosexual tendencies in public, and I would prefer those people of other persuasions practice the same. 
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Keyser Soce

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2008, 07:09:29 pm »

Gotta say it.  Acceptance of homosexual behaviour is inappropriate in both the new and old testaments of the Holy Bible.  Christianity and homosexuality are mutually exclusive.  The practice of homosexuality is an abomination before God.  Christians are to love the sinner but hate the sin.   God may be testing the homosexual, but Christians are to counsel him (her) 3 times and then must leave/avoid him (her) if they remain unrepentent in their sin.   Part of freedom is freedom of association.   If someone wishes not to associate with someone else, that is as important a freedom as freedom of religion, since being forced (by the state) to associate with someone who is unrepentent is the same as the establishment of a state religion and the barring of their freedom of religion.  Informal (self-imposed) sanctions prevent me from displaying heterosexual tendencies in public, and I would prefer those people of other persuasions practice the same. 

If you'd like to post this in a different thread, I'll be glad to respond.
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"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain

J’raxis 270145

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2008, 08:09:09 pm »

Gotta say it.  Acceptance of homosexual behaviour is inappropriate in both the new and old testaments of the Holy Bible.  Christianity and homosexuality are mutually exclusive.

For Christians who adhere to the Bible 100%, this is undoubtedly true. However, non-fundamentalist Christians seem to like to pick and choose which tenets they agree with, treating such things as the prohibitions on homosexuality as archaic social custom or somesuch—similar to the prohibitions on wearing clothing made of two kinds of material.

All in all, it doesn’t really matter to me anymore. As long as people aren’t forcing such beliefs on nonbelievers, I really don’t care what someone believes.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #85 on: February 12, 2008, 08:09:48 pm »

The main objective of the Free State Project's website is to provide citizens with a means to acquire the knowledge and skills they need to be active participants in local politics and government, participants in the governing of New Hampshire and the nation, and in rebuilding civilization.
might not be true .... since some of us are not citizens or have any plans to participate in government.
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Keyser Soce

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #86 on: February 13, 2008, 11:57:50 am »

The main objective of the Free State Project's website is to provide citizens with a means to acquire the knowledge and skills they need to be active participants in local politics and government, participants in the governing of New Hampshire and the nation, and in rebuilding civilization.
might not be true .... since some of us are not citizens or have any plans to participate in government.

There's always that.  8)
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"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain

008klm

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #87 on: February 14, 2008, 01:23:10 pm »

I am learning much.  Thank you all for your indulging me and not flaming me over my views.  Great bunch all!
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #88 on: February 15, 2008, 06:01:00 am »

I am learning much.  Thank you all for your indulging me and not flaming me over my views.  Great bunch all!

Indeed. Russell is a Christian Anarchist and one of the many anti-political activists here. I guess you could say he’s freed himself by simply opting out of government. Myself, I’m an anarchist, but I think working within the system is a good way to get us there. Subvert, transform, and dismantle from within—the state socialists successfully did it a century ago, why can’t we? ;D

And the FSP SoI is written broadly enough to encompass both anarchists and minarchists, in that it speaks of the maximal role of government without requiring members to believe in any minimum role.
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USgulfVET

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Re: Birth of a Safe Place for Newcomers and Civilized Conversationalists
« Reply #89 on: April 17, 2008, 09:28:40 am »

First I would like to say Hello as I am new here.
Second, I was attracted to this thread to get my feet wet before the verbal joust of the masses.

I have already learned 2 things from my first day here.

1st, just like little children in the school yard, bullies will follow you anywhere.
2nd, Russell Kanning is an A$$hole.

It's been a very educational day for me and would like to thank Jean & Brien


Hi Jean:  Well I just received my first insult from a few "uniformed" regulars. 

Theses two "member" were not only uniformed on the issue but seemed bent upon ridicule as well.  I have thick skin and my response is laden with facts, not speculation.  It always amazes me how some "members" want to dismantle everything in sight but have no reasonable replacements.

Members such as these will only force prospective members to turn away with disdain.  These people are doing more harm than good for the movement.  It is a shame.
I don't have a uniform.....sometimes I am uninformed ;D
I am not a member ..... but a participant ;)
I don't have thick skin like yours...... but I don't run to Jean for protection. :P
I think you want to control others.....and I oppose you :)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2008, 09:30:52 am by USgulfVET »
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