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Author Topic: Discuss FSP mission & future  (Read 221475 times)

Russell Kanning

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2005, 03:11:57 pm »

...For example, we could have had people on the ground in New London, CT as the supreme court was taking away their homes....
....some of us were there....just not the FSP...the FSP doesn't "do" anything....remember?
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2005, 03:34:32 pm »

To those of you whining about your "obligation".  Perhaps you never read the "Statement of Intent", but it's not a contract, nor does it hold any obligations beyond what you commit to yourself.  If you want to leave, you've always been free to do so.

I agree with Dave.  The FSP has been a success, in that it has already moved Liberty Lovers to the state.  Focusing on doing that, will result in MORE moving to the state SOONER.  Isn't that what *really* matters?  Action?

If you want to bail out, bail out now.  Go have a pity party together, and complain to one another about "failure".  The rest of us will be winning in New Hampshire.
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afreund

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2005, 04:33:38 pm »

Hi,

This is my first post so bear with me.  Here are a couple of things that strike me.  Firstly, the FSP is a really great idea.  It is actually achievable and could potentially make a huge difference.  Secondly, it doesn't seem that there is very much advertising for this project.  Besides Mr. Williams column a while back, I have heard no other mention of this project from any other source.  Another complaint/reality is the fact that moving is a hard thing to do.  Despite I think our mutual disgust with the federal government, it is hard to leave a very comfortable life.  If and when things worsen, I think your membership will increase.  Comfort is the enemy of change. 

I think you shouldn't do anything radically different.  Here are a couple of suggestiions:
1. You should increase advertising to people most likely to join you (don't waste money on those who cannot be convinced).   
2. You should try to raise more money!!!! 
3. Encourage people to move as soon as possible. 
4. The best advertisement for a product is the product itself.  If libertarian philosophy makes things better, then progress will come and that will be an added incentive for more people to come.  Success breeds success.

Basically I don't think a minor setback such as missing a rather arbritary goal is something to worry about.  We are making progress and will only reach our goal if we are steadfast. 

Thanks,
Adam Freund
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mikefam

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2005, 04:41:29 pm »

A contract is not a contract unless Some sort of "money" changes hands  under common law
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cattlebarron

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2005, 05:01:04 pm »

its time to consider free towns if the 20,000 are not going to be present by the fall of 2006  (and I have no idea how that is coming)  the Political structure of NH is very conducive to forming Free towns. The town in NH are very autonomous from the state in this regard, the state has regulatory oversite but the towns have the final say in regulatory implementation(the town Meeting is an extremely powerful body).
Maybe its time for the board of directors to make plans to start to identify towns that would make good candidates for "free towns" I am sure that once the free state project can firmly say "we have political control of X number of towns" more people will be more likely to move to NH knowing that they could move to a porc friendly town and start living their lives the way they choose.

     Towns in NH control Zoning  police departments trash collection and more it would be very easy for a handful of liberty minded people to gain control of a town meeting and vote to remove zoning,and other things also it is within the power of a town to withdraw from the SAU school system at a town meeting. and the best of all is that at town meeting Budgets are voted upon line by line meaning the administration of a town has its line in the budget  so does the police department fire dept. highway dept. and any other department  it would be very easy to remove , lets say the police department, simply vote down the funding for said department, no funding no department, in my town someone even petitioned to have the position of building inspector removed9 it didn't pass because nobody came to support it at town meeting).
     A free town or a hand full of free towns scattered across the state (endorsed by the FSP higher ups) would be in my opinion a giant leap forward toward liberty in our lifetimes.



This is the best idea I've read here today.  After all, the best politics are local, and the best chance to encourage FSP participants (like myself) would be to settle on a few towns where we can make immediate changes and see real results.  THEN take it statewide.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2005, 05:45:15 pm »

I haven't responded to any of the suggestions yet, but that doesn't mean I'm not reading. Keep 'em coming! There are some good ones in there, and some things I think we should follow up on very soon.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2005, 08:35:49 am by JasonPSorens »
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Jennie89

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2005, 06:30:04 pm »

I would be cautious about any Free Town project targeting small rural towns. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just saying it would have to be handled differently than one might expect. You're not going to gain native NH respect by charging into their rural communities. Now, if you want to retake Nashua, that's a whole other kettle of fish.

NH is such an attractive state for the FSP because its residents already have an independent mindset. This works against a Free Town Project in rural areas. Those long time NH residents will definitely resent a bunch of "newbie high brow policy wonks" telling them how to best change over a town their native families have probably lived in for a hundred years. It'll be be percieved as snobby, arrogant, and bullying. It's one thing to have a population come in and spread themselves around to affect change at the state level, it's quite another to "take over" a town.  You don't want a repeat of Grafton. That might cause a serious backlash.
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SBottari

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2005, 06:35:28 pm »

I figure, for my 100th post, that it's appropriate to comment in this thread.  I still want to go, and am planning on going.  Things might change that, but not without a fight.   I'm not really good as a recruiter, especially on such a hard sell (moving where you have no family is a big deal for a lot of people) and I'm no salesman.  What I can do is go to meetings, volunteer, campaign, run, whatever else.  Selling myself is a bit easier.

I tried talking to friends and co-workers about the project, but most aren't interested/can't (i.e. they are tied down)  or are too locked into a left vs. right mindset.  I think we can still accomplish a lot with the base of native NH, short of another disaster like the FTP.  If we flow, don't rub them the wrong way, lead by example to what we'd like to see the most as individuals - then the freedom-lovers of NH will support you. 

I see a lot of bickering and sub-genres of libertarianism or whatever you'd like to call your views on here, and hopefully it's just here it goes on.  Out there we need to help each other and help the NH natives.  Get involved in the issues you care about, ignore the ones you don't care about or don't like.

As for what to do for bringing on more people, have an extendable deadline perhaps and get more good media attention to the project. Revision to the SoI may create problems with current signers.  This may be slow going, but as the few coming make more and more progress, more will be attracted.  A snowball effect is what we should be looking for, exponential growth due to spikes in progress.

I'm looking to help, mostly I've been planning my short-term life lately.  Let me know what I can do in Minnesota for now.
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Friday

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2005, 09:28:57 pm »

I'm very happy that the BoD is addressing this issue proactively, and that it's actively soliciting opinions. Thank you!

What originally excited me about the concept of the Free State Project is that it's DOABLE.  I'm not expecting some sci fi libertarian utopia to materialize in the state of New Hampshire any time soon; but I still do believe that if liberty-minded people continue to flow in this direction, as many already have, it will have an impact that will snowball over time and become a self-sustaining phenomenon.

That said, I don't think there's a chance in hell that we will reach 20,000 participants by Sept. 2006.

These are my recommendations:

1) Remove Item 4 from the Participation Guidelines (the 20,000 caveat).

2) Revise the Statement of Intent to read "I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire AS SOON AS PRACTICAL, AND NO LATER THAN FIVE (5) YEARS FROM TODAY.  For the electronic version of the SOI, make it clear somehow that the form has a date stamp on it.

3) In compliance with the terms of the PG, send the revised version to all current participants, not with the understanding that they may opt out, but with the understanding that they must RECOMMIT, per the terms of the new SOI, by date TBD, or will be removed from the membership roles.  This will clear out a lot of the fluff that has been in there since before the state vote even took place. I'm all for making the membership count as honest and accurate as possible. We are encouraging people to change the course of their lives; they deserve nothing less.

4) Be open and honest about the change in policy.  Issue a press release about it. There's nothing to be ashamed of! Send Boston T. Party a personal letter wishing him the best of luck with Free State Wyoming and any former FSP participants who choose to go there instead. We're not afraid of two free states!

My thinking regarding adding a 5 year deadline to a signer's commitment is that it makes it seem much more real.  Also, I have to wonder about anyone who is planning on moving in more than 5 years.  I'm not saying I question their sincerity, just that so much can happen in 5 years... marriage, divorce, births, deaths, job changes, wars, depressions (financial AND mental).  Personally, it just doesn't mean that much to me if somebody promises to move to NH "12 years from now".  No offense intended; I just haven't met too many people in my life with that level of advance planning ability!

We haven't "failed"; we have reassessed and realigned our goals in keeping with the current state of the organization.  It's not like we're bankrupt, or that we don't have real live liberty lovers moving into NH every single week!  Let those who will snicker do so.  Let those who will fail to re-up do so.  They are not what concerns us. What concerns us is those who WILL move to New Hampshire, in the foreseeable future, to work for "Liberty in Our Lifetime".



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Dreepa

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2005, 10:16:19 pm »

Great post Friday...

What I like is that many many first time posters are replying!

Do you hear it?  FSP is getting excited!!!!!!!!!!
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CavalrySoldier

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2005, 10:20:06 pm »

Wow, I'm not sure I have ever even known about the forum on this site(can't be sure due to head injury in 2003), came to it because of the recommendation on the email.  What a bunch of eloquent intellectuals.  I am amazed that so many can discuss this topic and each have at least one new great point to make.  It warms my heart to see it, especially with everybody being so emotional about it and most keeping a calm, cool, non-confrontational mannerism in their writing.

I made a few notes while perusing each of your comments made today, and would like to tackle them one by one.

1.  Never admit defeat, whether you change anything or not.  It is a step in a new direction to get to the intended target, "liberty in our lifetime."  A defeat happens after you lose.  If you lose you don't win, and people stop paying attention to you. 

2.  Free State Wyoming is not who we are competing with.  That one is so important I will repeat myself, Free State Wyoming is not who we are competing with.  If any of you think you are competing with other individuals who want liberty in our lifetime then you need to step back and meditate on that thought for about a week.  We are competing with two other groups.  No not Democrates and Republicans.  We are competing with (A)  People who want to control our lives out of their fear, greed or hate.  (B)  People who are sheep and are overly eager to do whatever they are told so as not to rock the boat or upset somebody.  Those are the ONLY people we are competing with because they are the only people behind the destruction of liberty in this great nation.

3.  As to those people who are saying just wait and see, well, that is defeatist.  When we have so many great ideas of things to do in the mean time, even if we want to delay changing dates and minimums we already have too many great ideas (such as the Free Town idea) to spend another year resting on our laurels.

4.  In reference to the Free Town idea, and many other ideas, it would be handy if we had a spreadsheet of each of the townships, the number of porcupines already there, the total population, registered voter numbers, and how many people show up to each town hall meeting.  This would let the rest of us know what our chances are of really helping if we were to get on the bus tomorrow for a certain township.

5.  I don't think we should remove the September 06 date completely, I think we should change the focus to how many in state by then.  Perhaps 500, with an additional 500 each year.  I think in a few years we would actually be way ahead of schedule because of the progress being shown by then if even one tenth of the great ideas are implemented.  As to the person who questions people who meticulously plan 12 years ahead, I must simply say two things.  Retirement and graduation.  I have three career paths laid out for myself and three deadlines for my retirement based on which one comes together first.  People in college or highschool planning on eight years of college have a long term plan.  If someone plans that far ahead, respect it.  Freedom lovers need people who can plan ahead very much.

6.  As far as the networking idea goes, that would be great, and I agree it shouldn't be part of the Forum.  However it should be similar to the forum except it should also maintain a database with contact email, and if possible phone, for those already there( who are willing).  With the database arranged by township, showing whether that Porcupine can help with a job or finding a house or whatever.

7.  I think it is also time to add a little bit to the mission statement.  I am sure more than a few of you are familiar with the GOA (Gun owners of America).  For those of you not familiar, think NRA that hasn't sold out and refuses to compromise on any point.  The reason I bring them up, is because any time something political is happening they notify me so I am A, informed and can B, call my Congresscritter and tell them how I feel about it as well as C, go out and vote accordingly.  I think we will soon be at a point where doing that with local and state politics in New Hampshire will be Necessary to have the desired effect.  I don't think we should start this today, but start laying the foundation and preparing the website so it is ready in about a year (when we pass the 500 mark).

Liberty in our lifetime.  Hell, with all these great ideas I'm thinking liberty on my fortieth birthday.  I turn thirtysix Friday.
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sopwith21

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2005, 11:05:07 pm »

Here's hoping that board members actually see this...

1) Do nothing until the deadline has passed. Stick to our word and see it through as promised.

2) Then make one of two choices: either let people select their own move date, or choose a small area like Coos county.

I don't want to move alone and leave my family and career on the chance that someone might follow. I want to know that I'm part of something that has a chance at being successful. I want to know that even if we can only change one county, that our opportunity is real and mathmatically possible. A free state, a free city, a free county... I don't care as long as it can work.

All I'm asking is that in return for our move, we are offered a genuine chance at accomplishing our mission. "As many people as possible moving as fast as you can" doesn't do that. That's a hope and a prayer, not a plan. I'm willing to make the sacrifice, but let's remember what attracted each of us to this idea in the first place...

... We thought it could work.
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1FreeMan

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2005, 11:34:28 pm »

Excellent!
Ditto...
 8)
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Dreepa

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2005, 11:38:52 pm »

A word of caution-- remember the Free Town Project learn from it.
Coos County doesn't have many jobs.

If we hit somewhere near 20K by Sept 1. (or 30th if we need the extra days) people might be ok about missing the deadline and as FTL_ian points out.... so what if we lose a few.

We need concrete goals and plans on how to reach a certain number every day rather then 'hope' that people find out about the FSP. recruit recruit recruit.
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"Hagrid"

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Re: Discuss FSP mission & future
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2005, 12:18:19 am »

I see a lot of bickering and sub-genres of libertarianism or whatever you'd like to call your views on here, and hopefully it's just here it goes on.  Out there we need to help each other and help the NH natives.  Get involved in the issues you care about, ignore the ones you don't care about or don't like.

FYI, here in real life NH, we do work together often... and even when we disagree, we respect each other.  The bickering on the forums and subgenre stuff is purely a forum thing, mostly by armchair people NOT here in NH and unlikely to move, or else people with agendas working against what we're really doing here in NH.
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