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Author Topic: The case for New Hampshire  (Read 53945 times)

Zxcv

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #150 on: March 16, 2003, 10:39:19 pm »

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The other states can't even get people within their own states to join the FSP. According to the last FSP member breakdown by state, NH alone has only 29 fewer FSP members than the five western states combined (ID, MT, ND, SD, WY) and those five states have millions more combined population than NH. That would indicate to me that people in those states are not very interested in the FSP.
This is an interesting question. Joe suggested it's because people out west are already more free, and wouldn't want to leave their state for a more risky proposition. That is a good point, Joe, although it doesn't explain why NH, that is already similarly free, has a large FSP population. Also, you don't have to be a member to help the FSP cause; it would be very easy for a person in Wyoming to advance his state by posting in these forums, without joining and having to move if DE were picked, for example.

My guess is another factor is at least as strong. People in the interior west simply don't have politics on the brain as much as other states do. This may be laziness or lack of interest in things political; or it may be they are just not under attack as much as in other states. For example, NH has the teacher's union pushing hard for higher taxes. That is obviously going to energize the freedom-lovers there. They can clearly use our help to fight that back (I don't buy that LPNH is just engaging in one-upmanship with the other states, although they may have some delusions about how we would help the LPNH itself).

Joe, you mentioned some factors making NH sound like one of the least accessible states. However, just to play devil's advocate for a second, didn't NH actually have some real LP members in the legislature at some point (or was that VT)? If so, that seems at least a partial counter to your argument, and there must be some access for alternative/non-mainstream ideals into the political process. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm working from memory here.
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George Reich

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #151 on: March 17, 2003, 08:26:37 am »

Zxcv,
Vermont, New Hampshire and Alaska all, at one time in the past, had Libertarian state legislators.

New Hampshire had a Libertarian legislator as recently as the last session (Steve Vaillancourt). In fact, he just got reelected. He changed his registration to Republican this time to take advantage of the straight-ticket voters.

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Please don't get me wrong about New Hampshire being inaccessible.
New Hampshire is very accessible (at least the state legislature is according to my analysis

You bet. About 100 of New Hampshire's representatives won office with fewer than 2000 votes. Some won with fewer than 1000 votes. And New Hampshire's house will most probably be more accessible before the next election - there are several redistricting bills moving through the legislature right now which would create  more (and smaller) districts. The most popular bill would create 215 districts - quite a jump from the present 88.
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Zxcv

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #152 on: March 17, 2003, 10:07:07 am »

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New Hampshire had a Libertarian legislator as recently as the last session (Steve Vaillancourt). In fact, he just got reelected. He changed his registration to Republican this time to take advantage of the straight-ticket voters.
Sounds like a smart fellow.  ;)

I wonder what the LPNH thinks of this? Has he been given the cold shoulder?
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George Reich

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #153 on: March 17, 2003, 10:26:02 am »

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New Hampshire had a Libertarian legislator as recently as the last session (Steve Vaillancourt). In fact, he just got reelected. He changed his registration to Republican this time to take advantage of the straight-ticket voters.
Sounds like a smart fellow.  ;)

I wonder what the LPNH thinks of this? Has he been given the cold shoulder?

The cold shoulder? Not that I can tell. I don't mind at all that Steve did this. What matters to me is that he is there serving in the legislature.

If 20,000 porcupines were to come here and call themselves Republicans it would be fine with me. In fact, I think this would actually be the most effective strategy (at least initially).
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JasonPSorens

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #154 on: March 17, 2003, 11:54:22 am »

I can't speak for any of the other states, but I can tell you that the reason the IDLP does not write a "lousy press release" has nothing to do with lack of organization - quite the contrary. Being a diverse group, as befits libertarianism Western style, there are many members who do not support the FSP (mostly on the ground that it could result in taking the most active LP members away from the local endeavor, which is just beginning to show the kind of organization that they believe will win elections). The EC, rightly, will not dictate to the membership, nor will it purport to speak for the entire membership.

I have no desire to participate in any counterproductive east vs. west debate, so consider this a tangential reply.  

Since I have an interest in seeing the FSP succeed, I must strongly disagree with this attitude from the ID LP.  The FSP is a strategic concept; it's a means for achieving liberty.  If it is to be ignored simply because it does not garner unanimous support, then what we have is immobilism and failure, not respect for differences of opinion.  What kind of political party never takes a step except when 100% of its members agree totally with it?  It would never get anything done.  To be effective a political party must sometimes have the vision to adopt controversial strategies for growth and success.  Thus, I think the ID LP is really shooting themselves in the foot here, and it has nothing to do with libertarian principles.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2003, 11:56:06 am by JasonPSorens »
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Dave Mincin

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #155 on: March 18, 2003, 04:56:33 pm »

Sorry I been away...ST. Patty's Day!

For the record I have opted out of no state!

Dual Libertarian Victories in New Hampshire!

       Charles Carroll has won a seat on the Planning Commission of Rindge, New Hampshire during voting last Tuesday, March 11th, the Monadnock Libertarians are proud to announce.
Carroll won the seat against two other candidates who were also vying for the two seats up for election. About 43% of the approximately 1300 voters cast ballots for Carroll, easily placing the Libertarian second in the crowd of three.
      Carroll took part in a candidate's forum, where he espoused libertarian solutions for local problems. His performance at the forum appears to have played a large part in his decisive win in New Hampshire's traditional March elections.
      During the forum, Carroll told the crowd "that the town can not survive if they continue to look at them selves as a bedroom community; it didn't work for Andy Griffith in Mayberry and it won't work in Rindge".
      "We feel this was a great election with very little work. The planning board will have a new voice with new ideas, instead of the normal anti-business, anti-homeowner ideas" stated Travis Eaton, Carroll's campaign manager.        
      This win was just the beginning for the Monadnock Libertarians, who are actively fielding Libertarian candidates to fill local office, explained James Maynard, interim co-chair of the Cheshire County LPNH affiliate. The group is also fielding two candidates for Keene City Council in November, Maynard and former 2000 LPNH State Representative candidate Michelle Otterson, who earned nearly 10% of the vote in that election. Keene is the largest city in Cheshire County, and the 7th largest in New Hampshire.
      But Carroll was not alone among winners in New Hampshire this March. Howard Wilson of Andover has also won a three-year term on that town's budget committee.
      Charles Carroll will serve as Planning Commissioner for three years, in the town of Rindge (pop. 5,200). Rindge contains over 40 square miles of land, and 17 lakes and ponds. It is the home of Cathedral of the Pines and Franklin Pierce College.
      For more information about the Monadnock Libertarians, please visit http://www.monadnocklibs.org, or e-mail monadnocklibs@keenenh.us.

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freedomroad

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #156 on: March 19, 2003, 12:48:33 am »

Keene is the largest city in Cheshire County, and the 7th largest in New Hampshire.

I am very happy to see two members of my party in elections.  

According to the census 2000, Keene is the 11th, not the 7th largest city in NH.  I know, the figures might have changed in 3 years but I think they would just make Keene, even smaller, because most of the growth is in the once small southerncentral and southeastern towns.
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George Reich

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #157 on: March 19, 2003, 12:23:26 pm »

According to the census 2000, Keene is the 11th, not the 7th largest city in NH

I just looked at the 2000 census data and it looks to me like Keene was #6. Hmm....

Maybe marshrobert1 makes a good point about all this number crunching....  ???
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freedomroad

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #158 on: March 19, 2003, 12:37:48 pm »

According to the census 2000, Keene is the 11th, not the 7th largest city in NH

I just looked at the 2000 census data and it looks to me like Keene was #6. Hmm....

Here is report I have
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2001/tables/nh_tab_6.PDF
It shows that the population for Keene is not growing while the population for the towns in southcentral and southeastern NH is growing.  It shows that Keene was 9th in 1990, 11th in 2000, and will likely drop a spot or two in 2010.

In New Hampshire, there is so much growth that it is hard to keep up with all of the current town sizes.  A town might have 20,000+ and be in 5th place and another town of 20,000+ might be in 12th place, size wise.  What is easy to keep up with, though, is that NH has many towns with 20,000-30,000 people that are 10-20 min drives from each other.  Many of these growing towns are part of the large Boston-Lowell-Nashua-Lawrence MSA.

The report is from the U.S. Census Bureau page for NH at
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2001/tables/redist_nh.html

This is the official U.S. government information for NH.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2003, 12:47:51 pm by FreedomRoad »
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George Reich

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #159 on: March 19, 2003, 12:58:26 pm »

Derry, Salem, Merrimack, Londonderry, and Hudson are not cities - they are towns. So Keene was indeed #6.
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Dave Mincin

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #160 on: March 21, 2003, 10:00:10 pm »

On March 20th Rich Tomasso wrote:

A good day for the FSP.

That afternoon John Babiarz and the FSP Media Director (Jan?) were on WNTK
at 2pm for half an hour talking about the project and some of the efforts
taking place here in NH, including the Escape to NH event in June.

The host, Arne Arneson (previous Dem gov candidate) read from the website
and highlighted some of the appealing aspects of NH for those who might be
interested in the project.

WNTK is the most popular talk station in NH and can be heard in VT and MA.

That evening I held and FSP info meeting at Borders in Nashua at 6pm.
It was a small crowd, about a dozen. We talked about the project, answered
questions, handed out flyers. A few people around us in the bookstore were
clearly listening in. By the end of the meeting we had 3 people give
commitments to sign on (hopefully today), and also got some good leads on
media and promotion.

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vepope

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #161 on: March 23, 2003, 03:54:31 pm »

I've spent the majority of this Sunny Sunday afternoon reading the pros and cons of NH and other states here today.  There has been a lot that I've read about why one state is better than others for whatever reason, and many have discussed current trends of other immigrants to the targeted states.

One thing I haven't seen discussed is this:  After we get started on the actual exodus to the target state, and begin to have an impact on it's local and regional (within the state) laws, what is the likelihood that D's or R's will do the same thing we have done, just to try to stop us from succeeding?  

That would look like a very strong argument against anywhere that facilitates commuting to get a good job.  Just a thought, since I'm fairly new to all of this.  I just want this to work, and make it as difficult as possible for the supporters and builders of "big goverment" to rally against us. ::)
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Steve

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #162 on: March 23, 2003, 06:32:31 pm »

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vepope wrote:
what is the likelihood that D's or R's will do the same thing we have done, just to try to stop us from succeeding?
In my opinion, the likelihood is zero, thanks to the phenomenon that usually works for special interests against the collective: "concentrated benefits, diffused costs".  It is hard enough to persuade rabid libertarians to make the move and reap great benefits; how likely are our opponents to pay the cost of a move for the questionable benefit of thwarting us? It is more likely that the target state will acquire the reputation for being libertarian, and will be avoided by the D's and R's like a leper colony.  Many would rather see us concentrate in one state, ridding all the other states of us!
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exitus

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #163 on: March 23, 2003, 06:54:14 pm »

After a lot of research and thought,  I think New Hampshire would be a great place to live, especially if 20,000 liberty activists all moved there.  I think it is the only eastern state even worth considering,  and easily one of the top  choices, at least fourth-best, no matter how high the population factor is.

I just spoke with a cousin who lived in NH while getting his law degree, he enjoyed living there but said it was noticeably more cold for him compared to where he grew up in Salt Lake City.  He said the people are very pleasant and he and his family have enjoyed going back for vacations in the summertime now that he lives in Maryland.

Sometimes, I think that the New Hampshire contingent is going to win this whole vote thanks in part to their organization and efforts, (although I have greater wishes on Wyoming still).  Let it be said, however, if the FSP fails to get 20,000 (I shudder at the thought),  or if the FSP chooses another state,  I think NH will still be remembered by hundreds of people as a place they will want to move to, thanks in part to the good efforts of all the friendly libertarians in New Hampshire!
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George Reich

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Re:The case for New Hampshire
« Reply #164 on: March 24, 2003, 08:50:26 am »

I have planned an informational meeting about the Free State Project at the Dover, New Hampshire public library on Monday, April 21st from 7:00 - 8:30 pm.

Literature and information about the project will be provided. This event is open to the public.

Escape to New Hampshire! - http://www.lpnh.org/escape.htm

 :)
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