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Author Topic: (FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??  (Read 8275 times)

BLADERUNNER33

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(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« on: July 20, 2002, 03:59:41 pm »

  O k folks  i am very new here to FSP, and i have a lot of questions and plenty of idea's.
One of those question i need answered is what type of smaller goverment are we going to set-up? are we going to have a army,militia,police force,etc?

Will we draw-up a new constitution?

How will we handle taking-over whatever state we decide to call home?

Are we going to teach the bible in school?

Are the standards going to be higher then what were leaving behind ,in the old US?

Are we going to  have only the best people to make up our free state,or are we going to be taking-in the dreggs of society?

T hose are just for starters right now ,if anyone within this group has the answers to all these,let's here'em? ???
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Matthew

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2002, 07:07:06 pm »

"Will we draw-up a new constitution?"
It depends if we decide to seccede or not.

"How will we handle taking-over whatever state we decide to call home?"
Getting 20k to move there, then vote.

"Are we going to teach the bible in school?"
Schools would be private.
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admin

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2002, 08:58:17 pm »

Bladerunner,

I'm fairly new here too, but I think you are perhaps thinking of this as too much of a "revolutionary" idea.  The idea of this project is to work for change within the current system.  Step one, I believe (others can correct me if I'm wrong) is to do as much as possible by voting and electing officials in the chosen state to move towards a free (libertarian) society.  This will be far from where most of us would eventually like to get.  Step two would be to start "pushing it" with the federal government (by defying certain unacceptable federal laws).  As far as I know, something as radical as secession is not even being seriously contemplated at this stage of the game.

Veterans feel free to chime in.

Charles
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Matthew

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2002, 12:23:59 am »

Sounds right to me!
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BLADERUNNER33

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2002, 08:22:23 am »

Gentlemen i think it extremely sadd the you still think you can have it both ways,voting the corrupt goverment out?
Then going against UNCLE ,and thinking he's just going to go away,if your thinking of taking a page from ole' martin luther.king wear we march up and down the street while modern day storm trooper 's sick dogs on us then you may get even less then what you expected,i sure hope that some of the other 500 or so have  more suitable ideas then this,thus far i am not convinced this dog will hunt! :-\
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orgile73

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2002, 11:37:45 am »


Gentlemen i think it extremely sadd the you still think you can have it both ways,voting the corrupt goverment out?
Then going against UNCLE ,and thinking he's just going to go away,if your thinking of taking a page from ole' martin luther.king wear we march up and down the street while modern day storm trooper 's sick dogs on us then you may get even less then what you expected,i sure hope that some of the other 500 or so have  more suitable ideas then this,thus far i am not convinced this dog will hunt! :-\


 The idea is to minimize government by the establishment of a platform suitable for that goal; to turn tides, not to radically eliminate.  It's more of a stealth action rather than a rebel yell.
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JasonPSorens

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2002, 11:11:22 am »

It is indeed a stealth action, but the hope of many is that the end results will be radical.  We will apply political pressure on all fronts.  Some of our participants will demonstrate, some will run for office, some will put out policy analyses, some will circulate petitions, some will get into local TV, radio, and print media.  It will be a full-court press for liberty, and with a little shrewdness I think we can create the right climate for radical change in the direction of liberty and minimal government.
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Mega Joule

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2002, 06:32:25 pm »


It is indeed a stealth action, but the hope of many is that the end results will be radical.  We will apply political pressure on all fronts.  Some of our participants will demonstrate, some will run for office, some will put out policy analyses, some will circulate petitions, some will get into local TV, radio, and print media.  It will be a full-court press for liberty, and with a little shrewdness I think we can create the right climate for radical change in the direction of liberty and minimal government.


I agree with Jason.  This has to begin with a stealth action lest the Fedgov wipe out the FSP before it is off the ground.  Anything that begins small and radical is destined to get stamped out.  If we can, get 20,000 liberty-minded individuals into one state working for the cause of freedom, we can work within that state to enhance whatever freedoms are already there.  That is why one of the considerations for a state is the amount of relative freedom already in place.  For example, even if my state (the Socialist Republic of Kalifornia) didn't have a huge population, it would not be feasible due to the fascist policies of the state gov.

There are other states however that already operate under a considerably greater amount of freedom and non-interference by their state gov.  

Mega Joule
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mikegags

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2002, 10:42:49 am »

I think stealth action is a poor choice of words. Let's not kid ourselves, Big Brother is upon us. Carnivore, etc. They know we are here, or they will soon.

No - I am not paranoid. But I will not underestimate my adversary. We are attempting a peaceful political movement. There is nothing subtle or stealth about it. We will be labeled right-wingers, anarchists and yes, eventually terrorists. The media is on their side, as well as millions of products of our wonderful govt schools of indoctrination. I am still struggling to clear my head of all that gargage!

As I have said before, this organization is a wonderful idea whose time has come, but let's not be naive. Am I being dramatic? I hope so. This isn't about right or wrong. Its about power. The US now has much more power then England ever did.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2002, 10:48:36 am by mikegags »
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Barbara

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2002, 12:34:24 pm »

I am posting this in two places, because it seems appropriate in both - hope that's ok.

It is becoming increasingly clear to me in reading posts in this forum that it will be necessary for someone (whether individual or core group) to 1) determine if any government is necessary and 2) define its proper role, in order to take this concept from an interesting discussion to reality.

(And not until this is done, can I decide if I want to join)
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Elizabeth

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2002, 06:42:05 pm »


I am posting this in two places, because it seems appropriate in both - hope that's ok.


In general, no, because it makes it difficult to have a coherent conversation in two places, plus it uses up unnecessary resources.

Quote
It is becoming increasingly clear to me in reading posts in this forum that it will be necessary for someone (whether individual or core group) to 1) determine if any government is necessary and 2) define its proper role, in order to take this concept from an interesting discussion to reality.


You may have a major misconception.  We are not going to be starting anything from scratch.  We will take the starting point of the current state government, and then reduce government size and regulations.  A practical goal is 2/3 reduction, as discussed in our FAQ and supporting articles.  We are not an anarchist project, so there will be some government.  Realistically, the question of "how much" is one that will not be important for many, many years -- initially, getting rid of the smaller regulations like licensing, etc., moving toward bigger issues like taxation, schools, drug laws, gun laws, etc., will take up quite some time.  So if you want to know what te state government will look like 20 years from now, we can't and won't make you any promises.
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Barbara

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2002, 02:59:36 pm »


 We will take the starting point of the current state government, and then reduce government size and regulations.  A practical goal is 2/3 reduction, as discussed in our FAQ and supporting articles.  We are not an anarchist project, so there will be some government.  Realistically, the question of "how much" is one that will not be important for many, many years -- initially, getting rid of the smaller regulations like licensing, etc., moving toward bigger issues like taxation, schools, drug laws, gun laws, etc., will take up quite some time.  

Hello Elizabeth.  Thanks for the tip about the two posts - won't happen again.

I did not misunderstand the concept, and I did read the FAQs; however, I have seen posts even from members of your project that appear to indicate disagreement on the most basic issues of what the appropriate role of government actually is.  If you do not define that, and agree on exactly where government will be limited and how much government you want as an end goal, before you start eliminating things piecemeal, you will reach a point where you can't know for sure what to get rid of and what not to get rid of.

How many people who do have or wish to have an end in mind will risk their entire current situation, support system, etc. without at least some idea of where it will take them?  Without a road map, how will any of you know which turn to take?  Just whatever "feels" right?  And yet you expect 20,000 people to leave their homes and families to go with you to do this?

This does not appear to me some frivolous spur of the moment project.  You all seem very serious and intent on its success.  And anyone who is seriously interested in this project will be realistic enough to know that no promises can be made.  But if you wish to recruit other serious people (serious people will be the ones getting involved in helping develop and plan this project - and won't be the "joiners" and "talkers" who will not actually be likely to follow through when the time comes - agreement or not), you may want to have an end goal more specific than "less government."  You can do long-range planning and still concentrate on the shorter range practicalities (and I would argue from experience that you need to to succeed).
« Last Edit: September 22, 2002, 03:04:49 pm by blnelson »
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mlilback

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Re:(FSP)WHAT TYPE OF SMALLER GOVERMENT??
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2002, 06:26:04 pm »

I think the answer can't be what form of government, as that will be up to voters. But what should be emphasized as the goal is to shift politics to being a debate between the types of reduced governments.

Instead of democrats v. republicans (who differ only in who they give your money to and which liberties they want to take away), we'd have parties representing reduced government v. minimialist government.

I doubt the FSP is going to result in a Rand/Heinlen libertarian government in the next 100 years, no matter how desirable it might be to some. I'm just looking to have my tax burden be reduced and no one tell me what I can or can't do in private.

Sure, I'd love to see a new government. But that isn't happening for a long time, if ever (on U.S. soil). It's very important to stay practial and realistic about what can be accomplished. Especially when your dreams can be used against you.

Mark
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