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Author Topic: Mexico City  (Read 20097 times)

penguinsscareme

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2004, 03:53:51 pm »

Yeah, see that's where I get less enthused.  I think it will be more effective to simply get the exposure to the right kinds of people, rather than to try and go on and make a really detailed pitch.  I'm talking about targeting people who are already ripe for conversion, if you know what I mean.  I think a sermon on the evils of big government would be preaching to the choir.

Why am I using so many church metaphors?

You know, as scintillating as it is to have our little debates on our little forum, I dare say most people think this is pretty nerdy stuff.  If you know anyone who goes to things like basball card shows, or Star Trek conventions, or gets seriously into those role-playing games, then you know how we are perceived by the teeming masses.  It's not a good idea to try and bring the atmosphere of the forum to a mainstream venue.  Face it, we're sociopolitical geeks.  And I for one am proud to wear the moniker, but we have to try for a slightly less "weird" public image.

If I were to do this on my own, I would simply go on the show and say hey, I'd like to encourage all of your listeners to go and check out freestateproject.org and give liberty in our lifetime a chance.  Or something like that.

If I took Lorrey's approach, I'm afraid of a couple things.  One, I'd almost surely say something wrong.  I've never tried to represent the views of anyone but myself before.  Two, calling in to a drive-time radio show to try and get a quick plug is a much different proposition than trying to be entertaining enough to hold the very jaded interest of a top-ten market radio audience.

Also, I like to think I've put together some fairly well-constructed thoughts in the brief time I've been participating in this forum.  But understand that I sit and labor over my posts, tailoring them to try and make them clearer and concise..r.  Speaking extemporaneously with a high-energy talkshow host is not my strongest suit.

Here's what I'm suggesting.  I'd be willing to contact the advertising department of the radio station in question and find out what it would cost for twenty thirty-second spots on the Severin show.  That's once an hour, every hour during the show, for one week.  And let's be realistic, here.  We're not talking about the country music station in Topeka, Kansas during the evening farm reports.  This is a million-plus listener market.  It's going to take some jing.  Okay, jing means money.  That's slang right there.  But hey -- if an ad campaign like that doesn't produce an additional 25,000 hits on the fsp website over and above the weekly average, then I, Andrew Wiegand, aka penguinsscareme, will personally man the dunk tank at the Porcupine Festival in June.  The Severin audience is generally adult, well-educated, affluent, constitutionally literate, and urban.  That means they're not only likely to check it out, but they're also going to be telling their friends to check it out.  Hey, let's at least put some more thought into it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2004, 04:01:52 pm by penguinsscareme »
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penguinsscareme

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2004, 04:24:28 pm »

Sample ad:

Do you know how much of your income you paid in taxes last year?  Do you want to pay even more this year?  Or do you want to do something about it?

Do you want to just go on complaining about government inefficiency and the erosion of liberty?  Or do you want to do something about it?

The Free State Project is a non-politically affiliated, nonviolent, non-profit grassroots effort to achieve Liberty in Our Lifetime.

The Free State project isn't just an attitude; it's an act.  When you're ready to act, please visit www.freestateproject.org.

The Free State Project.  Are you ready for Liberty in Our Lifetime?



Well?  How 'bout it?  Provocative enough to get attention, but not lunatic-sounding enough to scare away mainstream types.  Well, maybe enough to scare soccermoms, but they're not really the target demographic anyway.  I think something with a slightly sinister, deep-bass techno downbeat playing behind a professional voiceover of something like that script would definitely catch the ears of a hungry audience.

Andrew
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penguinsscareme

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2004, 04:36:43 pm »

Also maybe we can consider a billboard on the Mass Pike right near Fenway Park w/ nothing on it but the web address.  Holy exposure!
Well, that's all a lot of grand planning.  I realize the hundred bucks I promised toward such an effort is no more than a small deposit.
But let's see, we have over 5000 members, and a lot more friendlys.  Look, anywhere you can scrawl freestateproject.org where it will be seen by other people, preferably lots of other people, is a good thing!
I think if the fsp ends up chucking a furball it's not going to be for lack of willing participants.  It's going to be for lack of exposure.  Cripes, I'm going to start keeping a piece of chalk in my pocket at all times and scratch it onto every wall I can find until they lock me up.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2004, 04:37:11 pm by penguinsscareme »
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penguinsscareme

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2004, 04:40:42 pm »

How about just a businesscard-sized ad in the back of Mother Earth News?  Those crunchy granola types would be all over this!
Man, I just see so much more we could do for ourselves.  He'p me, Jesus!
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BillG

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2004, 06:54:50 pm »

How about just a businesscard-sized ad in the back of Mother Earth News?  Those crunchy granola types would be all over this!
Man, I just see so much more we could do for ourselves.  He'p me, Jesus!

not if the FSP's approach to the environment is to further privatize the commons it won't...

I represent a minority position within the greens (Geo-Lib) and there is no give and take at all on this issue here on this forum...
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penguinsscareme

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2004, 08:02:24 pm »

No, no, Bill, you're not doing it right.  Stop thinking about the specific issue of tree hugging!  Think of the amazon.com model (I realize you can't see me right now but I want you to know I'm making condescending gestures regarding your intelligence).  Not one specific title, but "people who bought this book also bought _____."  I.e., people who read Mother Earth News also tend to embrace self-reliance.  Self reliance -- hey!  I bet people who like self reliance would be more open to the idea of the fsp than, say, readers of The New Yorker!

Not all Mother Earth News readers will be rugged individualists, of course.  But I'll bet there's significant overlap.  Ask around -- I'll bet several fsp members also read or used to read Mother Earth News.  Ask Tracy Saboe, or Rod Schmidt, or Top Dollar.

There's a market here!  I'm telling you, once you learn how to look, you just see more and more until it's just overwhelming where such a short time ago it seemed so empty!


Oh, hey, and that's not the best part.  Listen to what I thought up while I was finding money in the washing machine again.  If all the fsp members just wrote the web address on all their cash whenever they got change, or went to the atm, or got paid, or robbed a drug dealer, our exposure would increase, like, exponentially!!  And it wouldn't cost any money at all!  It would just happen in the natural course of business!
Wow, man, that's hot.

Andrew
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penguinsscareme

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2004, 10:13:54 pm »

I've started a new thread specifically about the dollar bill thing.  Check it out on publicity and recruiting.

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=5516

Andrew
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BillG

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2004, 12:56:46 am »

No, no, Bill, you're not doing it right.  Stop thinking about the specific issue of tree hugging!  Think of the amazon.com model (I realize you can't see me right now but I want you to know I'm making condescending gestures regarding your intelligence).  Not one specific title, but "people who bought this book also bought _____."  I.e., people who read Mother Earth News also tend to embrace self-reliance.  Self reliance -- hey!  I bet people who like self reliance would be more open to the idea of the fsp than, say, readers of The New Yorker!

Not all Mother Earth News readers will be rugged individualists, of course.  But I'll bet there's significant overlap.  Ask around -- I'll bet several fsp members also read or used to read Mother Earth News.  Ask Tracy Saboe, or Rod Schmidt, or Top Dollar.

There's a market here!  I'm telling you, once you learn how to look, you just see more and more until it's just overwhelming where such a short time ago it seemed so empty!

Coming from the decentralist & self-reliance wing of the greens I have been pointing out the connections to folks here but have mostly been derided for my attempts...good luck!
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LeopardPM

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #68 on: February 09, 2004, 06:14:13 am »

bill,
Re: Greens and the commons and not liking privatization....

I don't know, I am sure not all 'greenies' are into the georgist thing... but I think you are right in that the environment is the lib achilles heel when dealing with the left (dems, socialists, greens, et al).  Although I truly believe that the 'environment will be better taken care of in private hands, we need more 'proof' to show...

michael
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BillG

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #69 on: February 09, 2004, 06:25:42 am »

bill,
Re: Greens and the commons and not liking privatization....

I don't know, I am sure not all 'greenies' are into the georgist thing... but I think you are right in that the environment is the lib achilles heel when dealing with the left (dems, socialists, greens, et al).  Although I truly believe that the 'environment will be better taken care of in private hands, we need more 'proof' to show...

michael

dead on, Michael!

thanks for "going out on a limb"...
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LeopardPM

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2004, 07:37:28 am »

Bill,
why do you say 'out on a limb'?

I doubt if there are many, if any, AnCappers/NeoCon libs/Rightie Libs that would disagree with that statement... its pretty obvious we need more 'proof' that privatization works, AND, if in the process of 'testing' these 'theories' it doesn't seem to be working, then I would gladly sway over a bit to the 'greenie' side of things... I believe that privatization increases liberty AND is generally in the better interests of all involved... if a great amount of people are 'harmed' by the privatization, I would second guess my dogma...

always with you in spirit, Bill, we want 'good' not rampant evil...
michael
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Tony Stelik

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2004, 02:55:14 pm »

Stewardship of the private owners is providing much better results than common ownership, which means nobody owns it and respectively nobody cares (see socialism in former soviet union, and everywhere).
The solution for right environmental conservation is executing end protecting individual rights of the owners. I am not able to provide examples of results of private ownership but it is very easy to see what happens when government is taking care of environment. Taking a swim in Vistula – Poland back in 1980 was causing serious dermatological problems. It was not the most polluted river by the way. Forests were cut down without even the reason and pine trees were planted only by private farmers. Chemical fertilizers were spread in February or March when ground was still frozen and heavy equipment could travel through. Result – the snow on cooperate farms in all eastern block was red. Soon after, all chemicals where going with the melted snow directly to the rivers, but this did not bother anybody. Plan of fertilization was done in 110% ahead of time and party members received annual portion of honorable orders and recommendations. Or look what is happening in reign forests in Latin America. Those governments over there are experimenting now with the “fairest” system under the sun – international socialism (communism) with some  touch of national socialism (fascism) and they are bypassing achievements of even former eastern block.
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2004, 03:37:18 pm »

Good points, Tony. All one has to do to compare private ownership of land with public ownership is look at the environmental records of eastern europe and the USSR, as well as China, vs the US.

Even today, where we have the UN trying to come up with a fair accounting system for CO2 sources and sinks, the US and Canada are an immense CO2 sink because there is so much private land where forests are growing and being properly managed. Europes socialistic systems do not provide as much stimulus, and as a result Europe is still a CO2 source.

Within the US, we can look at public lands vs private lands, and see that all of the massive forest fires occuring in the West occur on public lands under federal management/mismanagement, where idiot special interest Green groups block all attempts at forest management, resulting in widespread overfuelled ground. Private land owners manage their lands, log responsibly, because they know they will see mismanagement impact their resale value.

I went camping a few years ago in the Bitteroot Mountains in southwestern Montana. I was amazed at the immense amount of dead wood on the ground. I attended a National Rainbow Family Gathering, which attracted 20,000 people for a month of camping. By the end of the month, only half the dead wood on the ground had been consumed by campers.

That is a LOT of dead wood on the ground. I estimated it averaged a cord of wood on the ground for every 200 square feet.

This was national forest land. A month after we left, the Bitteroot forests went up in flames.
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RhythmStar

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2004, 04:00:38 pm »

Good points, Tony. All one has to do to compare private ownership of land with public ownership is look at the environmental records of eastern europe and the USSR, as well as China, vs the US.

Even today, where we have the UN trying to come up with a fair accounting system for CO2 sources and sinks, the US and Canada are an immense CO2 sink because there is so much private land where forests are growing and being properly managed. Europes socialistic systems do not provide as much stimulus, and as a result Europe is still a CO2 source.

Within the US, we can look at public lands vs private lands, and see that all of the massive forest fires occuring in the West occur on public lands under federal management/mismanagement, where idiot special interest Green groups block all attempts at forest management, resulting in widespread overfuelled ground. Private land owners manage their lands, log responsibly, because they know they will see mismanagement impact their resale value.

I went camping a few years ago in the Bitteroot Mountains in southwestern Montana. I was amazed at the immense amount of dead wood on the ground. I attended a National Rainbow Family Gathering, which attracted 20,000 people for a month of camping. By the end of the month, only half the dead wood on the ground had been consumed by campers.

That is a LOT of dead wood on the ground. I estimated it averaged a cord of wood on the ground for every 200 square feet.

This was national forest land. A month after we left, the Bitteroot forests went up in flames.

As of 1990, the US was a net producer of CO2 by 4956 million metric tons.   I doubt that much has changed to the positive in the intervening 14 years.

http://www.atmos.umd.edu/~owen/CHPI/IMAGES/co2emit.html

So, despite the 436 million metric tons worth of sink represented by forestry, we are still HUGE producers of CO2.

RS
« Last Edit: February 09, 2004, 04:01:11 pm by RhythmStar »
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Mexico City
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2004, 04:44:31 pm »

None of which disputes what I said. You did not, I'll note, specify what the size of the european sink is...
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