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Poll

What best describes your position on moving for the FSP?

I'll go anywhere for the FSP!
- 101 (32.5%)
There are a couple states I won't go to.
- 93 (29.9%)
I'll only go if the selected state is east/west of the Mississippi.
- 38 (12.2%)
There are a few states I'd go to, but that's it.
- 34 (10.9%)
I'll only participate if my favorite state is picked.
- 10 (3.2%)
I haven't decided!
- 35 (11.3%)

Total Members Voted: 288


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Author Topic: Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)  (Read 49948 times)

scottrk29

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Re:Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2003, 05:53:29 pm »

      Jeanius,                                                                                                             These opt-outs of 6,7,8, can be comprised of people who did make a decision about coast but then also included the criteria of feasibility. I haven't joined yet and probably will wait til after the vote,but from my point of view I could only vote for N.H.(I'm from the east coast)Montana, and possibly Wyoming. I wouldn't be choosing the other states because not enough enthusiasm exists for those states or I see roadblocks to their prospects of success. (I think Vt. and Me. are only realistic after N.H. is successful.)
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jeanius

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Re:Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2003, 11:14:53 pm »

And I'm looking at it from the other direction.  Enthusiasm will determine the target state via voting.  Any of the 10 states we choose could be successful if we actually end up with 20,000 (minimum) citizens there.  We (husband and I) have not opted out of any state and will move to which every state is selected.  

I agree that choosing the state based on its ability to succeed is the smart way to go.  But I believe that is an issue for voting - not opting out.  We will vote based on where we think the Free State Project will be most likely to succeed but will move to whichever state is chosen.  

Jean

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Chad Warner

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Re:Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2003, 12:25:45 pm »

I would just like to reiterate something that Scott pointed out.  Most people out west are blown away by how "small" the eastern states are.  They think that we are stacked in like sardines.  I don't think that is so accurate.

A friend of mine just gave the short New England tour to a friend of his from eastern Washington state.  His friend from out west was shocked by how much country living could be found just 1 hour east of Boston.  He was surprised that it wasn't just one big strip mall from the coast inland.  

Urban sprawl IS a problem but not nearly so bad in New England as can be found in some of the southern states.  Are the towns that are growing in Montana and Wyoming growing up or out? In the east, people have been living and building for almost 400 years.  In time, the western states will have to deal with this.  I can't see how moving 30,000 people to Missoula wouldn't change its look pretty quick.

The bottom line for me,  I can't wait to see where we all end up.  I hope it is New Hampshire.  I have visited Wyoming and Montana and would move there if that is the vote.

I hope that people who are opposed to moving east because they will feel cramped at least come and take a look.  Fly into Manchester and drive north.  You might be surprised.  

Chad
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jeanius

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Re:Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2003, 12:46:07 pm »

I think Easterners think moving West is undesirable and Westerners think moving East is undesirable.  The question becomes will they cross the country for FSP?  We will.  Check out my husband's essay "50 Things All the States Have in Common" in the articles section.  It puts things in perspective.

Jean
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vepope

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Re:Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2003, 01:08:44 pm »

My wife and I are "somewhere in between" the East states and the West states - being in Missouri.  So, we have no vested interest in any of the states.  There are criteria that we have to evaluate:  Whether she can get work there, how the weather will affect my military disability, etc.  I think there are only 3 states we can't go to.
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BobW

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Re:Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)
« Reply #65 on: June 24, 2003, 01:10:10 pm »

Hi Vepope,

Im sure Madam Vepope can find work anywhere with her skills in LS.  For what it's worth, ref the "etc" you typed above; ..

About 3 times a month I drive someone to meetings/events with DAV.  He is 100% SCD and mentioned he is concerned he will be thrown in to the medicare/mediaid pool.  

This leads me to mention that the "etc" might involve using the regional VARO as a personal criteria for yourself.  Prudhoe Bay, Alaska might not help you but being within a favorable VARO venue will definitely be important.

Then, again, I could be wrong.  The Senate Veterans Affairs Committee could blame us all for being at the wrong place at the wrong time and make all the VAROs equally bad.


BobW
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vepope

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Re:Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)
« Reply #66 on: June 24, 2003, 09:40:20 pm »

Hi BobW -

I admit to not being very creative with picking my "nickname" here.  It's just my first and middle initial, followed by my last name.  Please, just call me Vernon - and defiinitely NOT "Vern" - I had nothing to do with Jim Varney's rise to fame.  :D

About Mrs. VEPope's ability to get a job - that is limited by the fact that she doesn't want to start work for a state funded school, and thus become a part of the problem we are working against.  The number of institutions that don't get government funding, and hire librarians, and can pay them a decent wage, are small anywhere.

As for the various VARO's, the best I've heard of is Seatle, WA.  Since it isn't in a candidate state, it won't help much.  When I lived in Wichita, KS, my disability was rated at 30% permanent (that is only the injuries related to my military service) but upon moving to MO that 30% was cut to 10%. ???

I don't know anything about evaluations on the VARO's in the candidate states.  As far as I can tell, VA hospital care in almost all states stinks.  It would be my guess that the only good way to compare them would be to see how each VARO would rate the same veteran with the same disability.  

But then, what do we expect from an outfit that would keep a person with a foreign object in his foot sitting in the ER waiting room for 6 hours before evaluating the injury for treatment?  Mind you, that person was me, and as a veteran with a service connected disability, I am supposed to get priority over anything other than life-threatening situations!

So, the VARO's probably won't help us that much, but being somewhere that I can either get work based on my limited skills (an ex-wife wasted my VA Voc-Rehab benefits) or create a new income stream would be better.  I'm seriously thinking of taking NRA Instructor Certification courses when they resume in the Fall, and having that as a back-up when we move to the Free State.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2003, 09:44:17 pm by vepope »
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BobW

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Re:Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)
« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2003, 01:07:53 am »

Hi Vernon,

Re: # 67;

There is an informal rating of VAROs. I hesitate to obtain the list because it is changing very rapidly - just like VAMCs - all bad.

Work is available but obtaining it requires organizational assistance.  When time permits, I'll IM you some scratch notes of mine on my idea.


BobW
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synthbaron

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Set in your ways?
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2003, 01:54:49 pm »

How many here will only move to their top state, and how many don't care which one is picked?
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Rearden

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Re:Set in your ways?
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2003, 02:06:04 pm »

How many here will only move to their top state, and how many don't care which one is picked?

I care quite a bit which state is picked, as there are some very real differences between the states in terms of liberty-orientation and, perhaps even more importantly, accessibility of the political system.  

However, whichever state wins I will go.  The difference is when.

Some states I am confident can attract the next 15K members by September 2006, necessary to keep the project alive and not strand the early movers a la Fort Collins.  If one of those states wins (NH, DE, ID) then I will do my level best to be there next summer.  If a different state wins, one that I doubt can attract the next 15K by 9/06 (AK, WY, ND) then I will likely wait until the project's future is no longer in doubt before moving.

The four states I did not list above (MT, ME, VT, SD) are all states that may, IMO, be able to draw the 15K members.  They are borderline, and if one of them wins I will see how the new membership numbers react to the announcement and study the trendline before deciding exactly when to move.
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Dave Mincin

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Re:Set in your ways?
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2003, 09:44:27 pm »

Surprise! :D  Which state matters to me too!  If NH wins I will do my best to get there quickly, but if not I will honor my committment to move to the state selected, but I will need to have some confidence that we have something going on there that can work, which I see little of now.  Just not into being a stranger in a strange land! :(

After all hello real world, it is not so easy to give up much that I hold dear!  Bottom line, I will go but will look to have a bag of money first!
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Tony Stelik

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Re:Set in your ways?
« Reply #71 on: September 10, 2003, 11:03:28 am »

Surprise! :D  Which state matters to me too!  If NH wins I will do my best to get there quickly, but if not I will honor my committment to move to the state selected, but I will need to have some confidence that we have something going on there that can work, which I see little of now.  Just not into being a stranger in a strange land! :(

After all hello real world, it is not so easy to give up much that I hold dear!  Bottom line, I will go but will look to have a bag of money first!

Either bag of money, or very well researched marked and well defined plan for the own business. Some places will not provide too much job opportunities.
I am afraid if some of the states would be elected, there will not be a chance to attract 20 K in planned time. Without “critical mass” (20K) project will be just another repetition of “Freedom Now” project. It would be a shame. At the same time if some other state would be elected, success is on the horizon.
Everything depends if state population is open minded, if it is libertarian oriented, if there is the plan of action, if there is support of other grass root organizations like Tax Payers in NH, if there is growing economy and abundance of work? If mentality of members let us predict their successful activism and getting the goals?
If such a state is elected I would move without looking back at 20 K who will come for sure.
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vepope

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Re:Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)
« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2003, 11:20:47 am »

I know that you think you have carefully considered the "important variables," but I must throw a wet blanket on your statements.  Consider this - - 10K in WY can actually have a larger impact on the politics of the state than 20K will have in NH.  WY is the lowest population state of the 10, while NH barely fits within the limits right now.  In 5 years, NH will be half again as large, according to some forecasts of it's growth.  That puts it more than 25% OVER the maximum population size that we can hope to effectively impact with a full 20K of members.

As for the liberty orientation of the citizens already there, WY was the first state to make law a resolution placing FED agents under the authority of local law officers.  Also, WY has never had a state law against open carry of firearms by law abiding citizens.  They have very generous hunting/trapping laws, and are very liberty oriented on home schooling.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2003, 11:25:40 am by vepope »
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Tony Stelik

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Re:Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)
« Reply #73 on: September 10, 2003, 11:37:34 am »

<- 10K in WY can actually have a larger impact on the politics of the state than 20K will have in NH >
That is true. Percentvise.
Also it is not “critical mass” see Fort Collins
Also

<As for the liberty orientation of the citizens already there, WY was the first state to make law a resolution placing FED agents under the authority of local law officers. Also, WY has never had a state law against open carry of firearms by law abiding citizens. They have very generous hunting/trapping laws, and are very liberty oriented on home schooling.>

Just tell me if you will be successful in changing mind of the locals into more libertarian?
You know that locals will at first be more like Republicans, do not you?
No matter WY or NH, we will not do ANYTHING!!! By ourselves. We will need local people. In NH it will be easy. How about WY?
It is not important how many people live there in the state X, but what kind of the people.
In NH population is benefit for FSP, not a disadvantage.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2003, 12:00:00 pm by Tony Stelik »
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vepope

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Re:Location Requirements (TAKE THE POLL)
« Reply #74 on: September 10, 2003, 11:58:37 am »

I used to live in WY - in Gillette.  There was a very large "live & let live" sentiment there.  Then, there are the other examples that I've already cited of the liberty-friendly orientation of the locals.  Next, elections are pretty inexpensive to run.  There is no statewide income tax or property tax (I think - my memory is a bit addled by pain killers).

To anticipate the question about how the attitudes might have changed since I moved from WY, I have an uncle who still lives there, and at least Gillette hasn't changed at all.
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