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Author Topic: The Idaho Compromise  (Read 5375 times)

Racer X

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The Idaho Compromise
« on: July 15, 2003, 06:27:05 am »

I've been rethinking Idaho lately in the midst of this NH vs WY war. Could Idaho be a compromise state for Wyoming and New Hampshire supporters?  Maybe so.  Idaho offers some of what both sides seem to want.  For NH supporters, Idaho has a good blend of urban and rural areas, better prospects for immediate employment and a more diverse landscape(more green & trees). For Wyoming supporters, Idaho still has the Western individualist culture and wide open spaces without the socialist trends of Montana.

Idaho and New Hampshire both share the problem of high population among the 10 candidate states.  More and more I am becoming convinced that this is not the most important factor, so long as there is not a large population of statists present.  The attitudes of the locals are very important.  Much of our recruiting in-state will be done through the media, so there could just be a larger potential pool of activists waiting.  The more locals we have involved, the better off we'll be.  They know the territory better.  Look at the recent jump in FSP membership as a result of media coverage.  So, if population is of lesser importance, then why not New Hampshire?  Because of the surrounding culture.  Idaho is surrounded by liberty oriented regions, New Hampshire is not.  Like it or not, New Hampshire is smack in the middle of the Eastern establishment, and the barbarians are at the gate.  

Montana has been called "the Maine of the West" for it's socialist tendencies.  Could Idaho be "the New Hampshire of the West" for it's freedom culture and strong economy(without Uncle Boston looking over it's shoulder ;))?  Some have suggested Montana as a compromise state.  However, I think the dems/greens in Montana will hurt us more than the higher population in Idaho.  Montana is simply too socialist.  Any education reform in Montana would be difficult with their high NEA membership.

The stats on WY are tough to beat, but WY doesn't seem to be attracting business at the rate one would expect given those numbers.  The NH people are right to be concerned about jobs for the full 20,000 members.  Will we be able to attract enough entrepreneurs?  This is why I've been reconsidering Idaho.  Idaho seems to offer a good blend of what we're looking for.  At this point, I still favor Wyoming, but I'm interested in hearing what the NH people(or other Eastern State backers) think of Idaho.  

http://www.freestateproject.org/idaho2.htm

www.visitid.org


Racer X
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Kelton Baker

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Re:The Idaho Compromise
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2003, 09:13:33 am »

The Idaho Compromise:

So, If I understand what you are saying, Racer X, is that Idaho should not be anyone's #1 choice (except for a few big Idaho fans, like me perhaps), but it should be considered as a good 2nd , 3rd, or 4th choice, and if enough people do so, we may end-up in Idaho as a compromise if too many urban-favoring people were averse to Wyoming, and too many East-fearers or Western-preferers refused New Hampshire.


I've frequently thought-through the idea of the FSP going to Idaho and indirectly influencing Wyoming by doing so.  A lot of college students from Wyoming attend school in Idaho,  A high percentage of workers in Teton County live in Idaho (because real estate prices are too high near Jackson).  Idaho is influential in trade, commerce.  Idaho and Wyoming and Montana share much in common through Yellowstone and tourism and federal meddling issues that join these three states.

Eastern Idaho and Western Wyoming share a newspaper, several radio stations, and some television stations.

Also, just think if Idaho were to start having some serious successes with the LP party.  Wyoming's new fledgling LP with major party status could bask in that clout, fewer people would worry about the wasted vote syndrome and actually start voting LP because they heard about it in the news.

Several times, while reading laws, I noticed that either Wyoming plagarizes Idaho's laws or vice-versa.  There seems to be a few connections there from my limited readings.  

Wyoming has been actively seeking to expand corporate and airplane, LLC and other filings in state in an effort to diversify their economy.  Just think if Idaho started to give Wyoming a run for its money and started dropping its three-legged tax structure, how hard Wyoming would have to compete then!

If Zack Bass's theory is correct, and Wyoming residents already think they are free and Idaho started to demonstrate otherwise, Wyoming residents might think it over more.

The governor of Idaho is also one of the highest committe members and chairman of the Western Governors conference.  A little while back, the governor of Idaho and the governor of Washington state got together and announced that the drug war was not working and made a proposal to start more treatment programs over warehousing drug "offenders".  The Western state membership including Wyoming followed suit and started a comprehensive treatment program to complement drug arrests.  It is apparent that Idaho offered the leadership on this, just think if we were to be right there at the center of this influence in the future!
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« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 09:14:11 am by exitus... »
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Dalamar49

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Re:The Idaho Compromise
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2003, 09:27:54 am »

But, to move to Idaho would mean a net-decrease of freedom for many FSP members. Idaho's income tax is bloody through the roof.

Here's their state income tax:

Idaho 1.6% > $0
 3.6% > $1,086
4.1% > $2,172
5.1% > $3,259
6.1% > $4,345
7.1% > $5,432
7.4% > $8,148
7.8% > $21,730

I hope to make over 21,730 when I get out of college (knowing this economy who know's what'll happen?) and I don't want to give 7.8% of my income away to the bloody state.

At least WY as a compromise won't abuse FSP members with outrageous taxes.......no offence.... 8)
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Kelton Baker

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Re:The Idaho Compromise
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2003, 09:57:51 am »

But, to move to Idaho would mean a net-decrease of freedom for many FSP members. Idaho's income tax is bloody through the roof.

Here's their state income tax:

Idaho 1.6% > $0
 3.6% > $1,086
4.1% > $2,172
5.1% > $3,259
6.1% > $4,345
7.1% > $5,432
7.4% > $8,148
7.8% > $21,730

I hope to make over 21,730 when I get out of college (knowing this economy who know's what'll happen?) and I don't want to give 7.8% of my income away to the bloody state.

At least WY as a compromise won't abuse FSP members with outrageous taxes.......no offence.... 8)
This is a good point, and certainly a sad point, but consider one factor that would certainly play in our favor, politically:

Idaho has many active anti-tax groups that would readily support us.  Idaho voters have been trying to lower taxes for a long time, this is part of the reason that the ID legislature is over 80% Republican (you know, remember that party that says they are for lower taxes, smaller government -HAH!! it hasn't worked so far)

Let's expose the Neo-CON REpublicans for the liars and scoundrels that they truly are.

Let's tell the voters that they don't have to keep taking the abuse, let's bring the battered voters into the fold of people who really mean it when they say they want smaller government!

REpublicans keep saying that the voters need to vote for them to lower taxes, well 80% Republican should have accomplished that, they can't blame the Democrats now.  Idaho offers us the opportunity to make the LP the next new 2nd party in the state, or at least to scare the living daylights out of these RINOs and wield tremendous influence.

Among all Western states, Idaho is second only to Wyoming in tax burden.



But I see this as a net positive for the political potential in getting Libertarians in office and exposing Republicans for what they are.  Since we've got a long ways to reform all of our states,  this may be just the key to getting our foot in the door and becoming the Republican statists worse nightmare.

Another thing that is in Idaho's favor is that it has less of a hidden tax than any other state: lessened total regulation of business, this is not a big one politically like taxes, but important nonetheless.
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« Last Edit: July 17, 2003, 10:17:54 pm by exitus... »
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Give me some men who are stout-hearted men Who will fight for the right they adore. Start me with ten, who are stout-hearted men And I'll soon give you ten thousand more...--O. Hammerstein

Racer X

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Re:The Idaho Compromise
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2003, 04:48:00 pm »

The Idaho Compromise:

So, If I understand what you are saying, Racer X, is that Idaho should not be anyone's #1 choice (except for a few big Idaho fans, like me perhaps), but it should be considered as a good 2nd , 3rd, or 4th choice, and if enough people do so, we may end-up in Idaho as a compromise if too many urban-favoring people were averse to Wyoming, and too many East-fearers or Western-preferers refused New Hampshire.



Yes, exactly.  I think Idaho makes a great 1st or 2nd choice.  With the Condorcet voting method, ranking ID 2nd won't hurt your favorite state's chance of winning.  If we do end up with Idaho as a winner, I was thinking that less NH people would drop out since Idaho offers a good blend of features that those in the East and West both want.

Yes, it's true that Idaho does not win the prize for low taxes, but you have to compare the cost of living too.  Check out this
salary calculator to help you compare the cost of living between some Idaho and New Hampshire cities.

I agree we could hit the ground running on the anti-tax isssues.


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ShrineGuard

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Re:The Idaho Compromise
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2003, 06:11:32 pm »

While I do think the ideas put forth on this forum cannot be a true measure of how the ballot will go, let's think for a moment that this is the case.

It seems to me that the WY v NH deadlock will result in neither winning out.  While many people do vote for WY and NH as their one and two states, many people have put WY at the top and NH at the bottom or near-bottom, and vise-versa.  If this was the case, if a state like ID was consistantly placed in the second or third spot, victory would be likely for that state, would it not?

Of course, as I said, this forum cannot be a true measure of the voters at large.  A large majority of the FSP doesn't know of the WY v NH battle, and will vote along other lines.  I think it's fair to say the that WY v NH battle is one that exists in its deepest state on this forum.

I also happen to think NH has a lot more reputation going for it.  As a young child studying geography, Wyoming was the one state I always forgot.  I know, harsh, but that's how it is with many people.  NH is the state that always gets mentioned as 'the one without taxes.'  Yeah, there are really high property taxes, but I'm just talking common thoughts.

WY is a state that shows its value through research.  I had no clue it was such a great state until I checked out the information on this website.

While I do believe that most FSP members are going to do their research, there are those that wont, and that gives NH a boost, in my estimation.  For those that do research, I would expect a fairly even split in support between WY and NH.  Other states too, of course, but WY and NH are my focus here.

Name recognition and tradition may very well determine the outcome of this vote.
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uiiu

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Re:The Idaho Compromise
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2003, 10:18:47 pm »

Idaho already has a libertarian member of congress,Butch Otter.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2003, 10:19:11 pm by uiiu »
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EMOR

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Re:The Idaho Compromise
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2003, 11:17:30 am »

Idaho is great state. I lived there the bulk of my life. The only reason I rank it as low as I do is because of population factors.
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