Free State Project Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)  (Read 7557 times)

Gabe

  • FSP Participant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25
  • I'm wasting time.
    • Sluggy Freelance
Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« on: October 31, 2002, 11:49:02 am »

Being wanted by the natives of whichever state we move to could be a huge boost in the early days.  On the North Dakota ballot this time round is a measure to provide financial incentives for college graduates to live in North Dakota.  While this is not the sort of gov't program we'd want to implement, it does prove one thing very well:

North Dakotans want people to move there.

After reading the "Most Important Decision" article and considering ND seriously for the first time, it seems to me to have a lot going for it.  I think the FSP can succeed there.
Logged
lu'ela .uaiomin. cu nandu lenu facki lo smuni kei bau la lojban. ni'o mi sarji la .uaiomin. .a la .aleskas. lai nuxAmpciraits.

JT

  • FSP Participant
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
  • How can someone else know what's best for you???
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2002, 02:03:59 pm »

The main problem with ND is it's level of gov't dependency...
Logged

faraway

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26
  • I'm a llama!
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2002, 08:09:07 pm »

Really Joe, remote cold and blasted by Boreas...I do recall just the place, many think of it as Colorado's Siberia.
(to be home) Anyway, as Gabe notes North Dakota is actively seeking emigrants.  However, agriculture, their
largest industry is very, very government dependent.  And outside of Fargo, Bismark, Minot (and to a lesser
degree Jamestown) most of the ND towns are in very deep economic mire.  But this does bring up some
peripheral possibilities. Due to the change in demographics, the ND board of college regents has stated that
they will need to recruit outside their traditional sources (including, Gasp!, reservations).  So if FSP wanted to gain a
toehold in academia, be it as a student population, or as faculty, ND has some merit.  And figure it this way, many of
the theories which foster over dependence on Uncle Bingo...do derive from all the academics.  Could be a way to
gain a voice, within that subculture, to foster ideas like FSP.  And speaking as ( gods to admit this) an academic...
there does need to be a counterbalancing voice to over dependency on the government.
Logged
atana potinaja

Solitar

  • Guest
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2002, 10:15:21 pm »

Welcome aboard Faraway!
Nah, Leadville isn't that bad. Walden or Meeker are probably worse. There was another poster on another thread who wrote of moving from Denver's environs to Meeker to leave the crowds and gentry behind. But they followed!! To Meeker!!
Egads, can't we get away from that madding hoard!
Logged

RidleyReport

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3495
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2002, 12:48:31 pm »

Gabe wrote:

<<North Dakotans want people to move there.
>>

Hi Gabe & welcome....

I'm glad folks are finally starting to talk more about what the residents of the target states want and the extent to which they would welcome us.
Logged
http://RidleyReport.com
http://NHexit.com - If Britain can do it, New Hampshire can do it

Robert H.

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1361
  • Jeffersonian
    • Devolution USA
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2002, 12:01:11 am »

Gabe wrote:

<<North Dakotans want people to move there.
>>

Hi Gabe & welcome....

I'm glad folks are finally starting to talk more about what the residents of the target states want and the extent to which they would welcome us.

D.O.

I contacted the Montana Libertarian and Constitution parties to see if they had heard of the FSP, and if so, what they thought of it and if they thought it would work there.  I never did hear back from the LP, but the Constitution Party responded with a few ideas.  They didn't give me very much of a concrete answer on whether they thought the FSP would work there or not, but they did seem somewhat heartened by the idea of our possibly coming to their state.

So, the Montana Constitution and NH Libertarian parties are the only resident groups in our candidate states that (to my knowledge) have expressed an opinion on us considering their states.  

To get a sampling of the popular opinion, you'd almost have to conduct something like a random telephone poll, and this would seem impractical because of the amount of time you'd have to spend introducing the idea of the FSP to each person you contacted.

I wish that there was a way to get a broad sampling though...any ideas?

JT

  • FSP Participant
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
  • How can someone else know what's best for you???
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2002, 01:00:23 am »

If we could get every member to make one random telephone call that's 2000 people.  Hell, that's more calls than "news"papers make when conducting telephone polls...

Of course getting everyone to make 1 call to some random stranger in every candidate state would probably not be feasible, but I'm up for it (though I'd have to call on weekends because that's when my free minutes are available  ;D  )
Logged

Shayde

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Come on up to Montana!
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2002, 12:49:34 am »

AHHHH Meeker!!!  The PROMISE LAND!!  What do you mean saying Meeker is bad?  GUNNISON is bad, CRAIG is bad, CORTEZ and DURANGO are bad.  MEEKER is like heaven on earth!!!   ;)
Logged
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!  I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."  
Patrick Henry  1775

milas59

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 43
  • I'm a llama!
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2002, 06:31:56 pm »

Just emailed two LP members listed on North Dakota web  page(via lp.org)to get their thinking - a pleasant surprise as had been under the impression from 2002 LP convention they didnt exist. I will resort to yellow pages next

Can some of our numbers crunchers figure how the money flows into and out of the state and perhaps suggest how we might deal with the problem of possible loss of crop subsidy to big farmers?  

A post to the other North Dakota list mentioned the state being about split 50-50 bewteen open crops and forests. Does this apply to the Canadian border area as well?

Also can Jason or Tim Condon or other exec committee perhaps suggest a callers dialogue for volunteers who might like to call leading state residents to ask about an FSP migration.?

This might be a mistake the LP hasn t had a chance to make.

35 Below for a week - thats just like NEK VT I just left. Hey but nowhere can have  less sun than VT/NH.....

Peter Baker
(ready to go anywhere even back to socialist VT)
Logged

HardyMacia

  • FSP Participant
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 132
  • I'm a newfy!
    • Catamount Software
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2003, 11:01:45 pm »


So, the Montana Constitution and NH Libertarian parties are the only resident groups in our candidate states that (to my knowledge) have expressed an opinion on us considering their states.  

The Vermont LP and the Maine LP state committees also passed resolutions endorsing the FSP.

Hardy Macia
Grand Isle, VT
Logged

Karl

  • Guest
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2003, 08:25:27 am »

North Dakotans want people to move there.

I recall a few years ago that there was a bill in Congress that would GIVE land to homesteaders willing to move there and make it productive, but I don't think anything came of it.

And, if you think real estate is cheap in Wyoming, it doesn't compare to North Dakota!  I hear entire towns are near derilict.  In the more remote towns, 3 BR homes (with foundations!) on large lots can be bought for the price of a used car.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2003, 08:26:04 am by Karl Beisel »
Logged

JonM

  • First 1000
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1967
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2003, 08:31:16 am »

And there's a lovely Air Force base there.

Why not Minot?  The reason, it's freezin!

Logged

Karl

  • Guest
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2003, 08:38:33 am »

The main problem with ND is it's level of gov't dependency...

The exodus from rural North Dakota might be significantly worsened without the massive agricultural subsidies it receives.  Our attempts to become independent of them may prove quite damaging to the state's economy and its people.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2003, 01:10:30 pm by Karl Beisel »
Logged

Kelton Baker

  • Former FSP President
  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 757
  • Freedom is Free, it's tyranny that costs us dearly
    • Kelton Baker
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2003, 09:45:39 am »

I rank ND dead last among our candidate states.  I do so for a variety of reasons, here are a few:

1. In the Economic Freedom of North America (EFNA) Report, by the Frazier Institute, (which ranked Delaware as #1 in the nation and Alaska #50,) , they had the following to say about North Dakota (and a few other states) :
From Chapter 2: Overview of the Results of this report, Economic Freedom of North America:
Quote
The Worst Performers
For Montana and North Dakota,
the rejection of economic freedom is a relatively new
taste. Both have gone from the middle of the pack
to battling West Virginia for bottom spot. Over the
same period, Montana and North Dakota have seen their per-capita GDP decline by 23 and 31 percentage
points, respectively, against the national average.
Other consistent under performers include Maine,
New Mexico, Arkansas, Alaska, and Rhode Island.
2.  This analysis of what kind of representatives North Dakota sends to D.C. shows North Dakota dead last, most authoritarian among our states:

Here are the ratings of Congresspersons elected in these states over the last 10 years, based on personal freedom. Higher numbers are better:

WY 67.4
ID 65.6
AK 64.0
NH 61.7
MT 57.0
SD 47.8
ME 47.5
VT 42.0
DE 39.3
ND 36.3

Here are the economic freedom ratings.

WY 79.2
NH 74.7
ID 72.3
AK 67.0
MT 52.4
DE 51.5
SD 50.0
ME 45.4
VT 32.7
ND 27.0

Here are both ratings combined, for a freedom rating:

WY 73.3
ID 68.9
NH 68.2
AK 65.5
MT 54.7
SD 48.9
ME 46.4
DE 45.4
VT 37.3
ND 31.6

Interesting how this confirms, via a completely different route, the earlier spreadsheet analysis (using indicators like seatbelt laws and gun laws) that WY, ID and NH are our 3 most free states. And big surprise, ME is not last place this time.  ::)  Can someone tell me how ND does such a good job of electing such a collection of authoritarian jerks? What's wrong with them, anyway?

I'm getting very confident we have a good picture of the culture of freedom in our states, lately.


3. I recently had a Canadian neighbor who travels around the country as a salesman for a mortuary chemicals company tell me something quite revealing.  He makes lots of trips to North Dakota, and has a contact who is a professor at the University of North Dakota in Grand Forks, ND.  Anyways, I told him about the FSP and that ND was a candidate state, and he told me about an informal meeting with a group of professors who all had ties to Canada, compare ND with Canadian provinces to the north and with other states they were aware of.  They unanimously agreed that ND was far more "socially conservative" than any other place on issues of equities among women, citing examples of hiring practices and strong public antagonism towards women politicians simply for being women and even shunning of women who were pregnant.  On racial issues, however they did say that ND was pretty good.

4.  On most runnings of the spreadsheet for me, North Dakota consistently comes in at no better than 7th place, while South Dakota consistently fares far better.

5.  Worst weather among our candidate states.  I admit, weather is a strong factor for me, it bumps Delaware up a bit in my rankings and helps keep Idaho in the top.  Weather is probably my #1 problem with New Hampshire, so even more so for North Dakota which has far, far worse weather, worse than even Alaska, on the whole.

238
« Last Edit: July 30, 2003, 09:49:50 am by exitus... »
Logged
Give me some men who are stout-hearted men Who will fight for the right they adore. Start me with ten, who are stout-hearted men And I'll soon give you ten thousand more...--O. Hammerstein

faraway

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26
  • I'm a llama!
Re:Being wanted (a lonely ND plug)
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2003, 12:42:37 pm »

M. Beisal, your evaluation really touched the problem.  The vexation is that, for many, those very subsidies have caused some of the
problems which lead people to have to leave.  The equation, is that the more land one holds, the higher potential payments from CRP and
other government largesse.  So, the big operators, buy out (or lease out) their neighbors, set up multiple incorporations to get more payments,
and etc.  So the smaller operators get pushed out, ironically by programs that were intended to aid 'family farms'.  And unfortunately, all this money, tends not to
elevate the economy of the smaller prairie towns.  In some of these places, it's resulted in a virtually fuedal economy.  The people who don't get the largesse, or have lost to that
crowd, tend to have to hardscabble in low paying local jobs(by places often owned by the large landowners) , or have to leave.  And this situation isn't uncommon in ND, or in Eastern Montana.
And any change, could be difficult.  The proto-aristocrats, quite literally have many local politicians in their pockets.  And so any political body, which sets itself up against this situation, could be in for a very
serious fight, by powerful people, who would lose status and power in any FSP situation.
All that said, there are some areas which are trying to break this cycle.  Jamestown (whose economy almost blew away in the prairie winds) has been fairly innovative in trying to build up a broader based economy.
Other towns will have to do the same.  Even ND state has been looking for alternatives, even considering such as promoting birdwatching (lots of birds in ND) and the TR Badlands. So yes, ND is socially/politically conservative, but they've hit the wall, and are starting to see that things will need to change. Eastern Montana, seemingly not there yet. However, without change,  the conditions which led to houses being 9,000 or less, will escalate.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2003, 12:57:22 pm by faraway »
Logged
atana potinaja
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up