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Author Topic: North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?  (Read 7653 times)

Dakotabound

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North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« on: August 24, 2002, 09:51:04 pm »

Why or why not would any of you consider including North Dakota in your FSP selection?

Thanks!

DB
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Dakotabound

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Re:North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2002, 10:53:56 pm »


Winter is brutal, especially in the coldest, windiest three months.
Summer is very hot, especially in July when it can get over 100.



Winter I'll grant you.  ;)

Summer isn't any worse than most other states, and actually isn't as bad as many because of the constant breeze and low humidity in most parts of the state. If it does reach 100, it's only for a few days...not a few months like where I'm at (Florida).

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/othrdata/climate/temp.htm

Annual Number of Days of 90° F or Above

There is a large range in the number of days during which temperatures reach or exceed 90° F each year (Figure 19). Along the Canadian border in the northeast, maximum temperatures of 90° F or more occur only on eight days in an average year, while in parts of the southwest and south central temperatures equalling or exceeding 90° F can be expected on 32 days. There is also a pronounced wedge of days when temperatures equal or exceed 90° F extending northward from south central North Dakota into Bottineau county on the Canadian border. In an average year, about 75 percent of the days with temperatures equalling or exceeding 90° F occur in July and August. Regardless of location, the number of days with temperatures of 90° F or above are nearly the same in July as in August.

The chances of any area in the state having five consecutive days of temperatures above 90° F are greatest during the period from July 19 to August 1. During this period, temperatures will exceed 90° F for five consecutive days in only one year in five in a small area near the South Dakota border in the south central and southwest and only one year in 10 in the northern half of the state. Temperatures exceeding 90° usually occur when humidity is low and are not so disagreeable as similar temperatures in the more humid states.

***

Temperatures of 100° or higher occur nearly every year somewhere in North Dakota. Chances of this occurring are greatest in the south central area where in about 85 percent of the years maximum temperature will equal or exceed 100° F. These temperatures of 100° F or more last only for a day or two. In the northeast, temperatures reach 100° F or higher in only three years out of 10.
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marciesmom

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Re:North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2002, 08:42:12 am »

My concern is water.  How much rain does North Dakota get, and do they have good underground aquifers for wells?  I'm a westie (I favor moving west, rather than to the east coast), but if there's no water, it won't work.
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Dakotabound

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Re:North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2002, 09:50:36 am »


My concern is water.  How much rain does North Dakota get, and do they have good underground aquifers for wells?  I'm a westie (I favor moving west, rather than to the east coast), but if there's no water, it won't work.


Eastern North Dakota gets more rain than Western North Dakota. The eastern part has more farmland, while the western part is more ranches and the Badlands.

Annual Precipitation

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/othrdata/climate/precip.htm

Annual precipitation ranges from less than 13 inches in the northwest to more than 20 inches in parts of the Red River Valley and southeast (Figure 41).

I've written to someone to get more information on basic aquifer resources. In the meantime,  I'm including a couple of links.

http://www.swc.state.nd.us/WaterLaws/WaterLawNotes.pdf -- North Dakota Water Law

http://www.swc.state.nd.us/ -- North Dakota State Water Commission
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JT

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Re:North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2002, 02:25:39 pm »

I've been to ND a couple of times and must say I liked it.  I've never met people who were so nice and unafraid of crime (violent crime is virtually non-existent).  It can get VERY windy and when I was there in the winter time it was a bit chilly.  There was snow on the ground, but ND doesn't get enough precipitation to have massive amounts.  The roads were in excellent condition, much better than the roads here in Missouri.

Summertime was perfect.  I was only there a few days but the weather was awesome, and there's something about breathing clean air that I think I enjoy.  ;)

Independent, friendly people make this state a definite 'maybe'.
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Otosan

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Re:North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2002, 05:53:12 pm »

My only question about any of the states is, which one does not have a state income tax?

To me that would be one less battle.
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Otosan

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Re:North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2002, 07:27:18 pm »

Ok ... thanks Solitar.   :)
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Dakotabound

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Re:North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2002, 10:22:17 pm »


Because some in North Dakota wants to change their state's name.


Not a serious quest...most natives think those folks are a little off.

On another note: Why would anyone ever go to North Dakota?
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b3fba813577.htm
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milas59

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Re:North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2002, 07:45:49 pm »

dakotabound,

are you serious?  north dakota is the only state Ive never been to, even for a quick visit.  i lived in VT most of my life and ND is colder in the winter and hotter in the summer.
only one third of VT is as depressed economically as ND.

ND farmers probably dont need to live off the government as VT dairy farmers do. ND might be as flat and wide open as Kansas.

VT has small border with Canada that locals cross easlily in spite of sporadic BATF/FBI/DEA task force raids, so wont a lengthy ND Canadian border  always be crossable?.

in spite of Jacobs recent recant on the percentage of government land being an important consideration,  the government  will never give us any SHEEP over ND .

lets start a NDLP or LPND and call one hundred fargoans to see about their accent - and if they'd like us to come?

peter baker



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ct236

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Re:North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2002, 01:25:20 pm »

Because it's got a low and dropping population, it's already freedom-oriented, it has a long international border, but most of all, it has a booming high-tech industry: From the Wall Street Journal, 11/21/02:

ALL ABOUT FARGO, NORTH DAKOTA'S HOT EMPLOYMENT MARKET, FROM TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL: Here's a major article on how great Fargo, ND is doing economically, and how they're running out of educated employees, and how great the jobs situation is!!  http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1037829220352277948,00.html?mod=us%5Fbusiness%5Fbiz%5Ffocus%5Fhs  
For all those of you who have worried about the economy in North Dakota being able to support an influx of educated, technically-oriented Porcupines...read on...  

"Yah, Marge, It Gets Cold Here, But Growth Has Been Pretty Hot"
Experiencing an Unlikely Boom, Workers in Fargo Are a Bit Scarce    By ROBERT GAVIN
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL  (November 21, 2002)

FARGO, N.D. -- It's never been easy for Fargo, described by a former economic-development director as "the least photogenic place in America." The 1996 hit movie "Fargo" didn't help, depicting a desolate wasteland of harsh winds, hip-deep snow and graphic violence.

But this metropolitan area of 175,000 is showing that business opportunities in the frigid tundra can be surprisingly hot. As most of the nation struggles to shake off the recession, Fargo's economy has stayed strong and steady, attracting investment, adding jobs and extending a decade of prosperity.
 
Now, Fargo is facing the opposite problem that much of the nation has: It's starting to run out of workers.

Employers increasingly have to look elsewhere to fill openings -- and attracting them to Fargo isn't easy. When out-of-state prospects balk at the thought of Dakota winters, Candice Dietz, president of Fargo employment agency Preference Personnel, counters by offering to throw in a snowmobile or two. "Haven't had any takers," she says.

In September, the latest figures available, Fargo posted the lowest unemployment rate of any metro area in the nation, 1.7%, less than a third of the national average. Employment here has grown 5% since the beginning of the year, compared to 2% job growth nationwide.

How did Fargo attract so many employers? After all, it lies in a region considered so hopeless 15 years ago that a pair of professors recommended the federal government turn it into a buffalo preserve.

Local leaders had no illusions that the climate and scenery were going to sell their community. So while most midsize cities spent the 1990s pitching hard-to-define "quality of life" to recruit companies, Fargo promoted the quantity and quality of its labor force.
 
Local business groups financed detailed surveys that not only pinpointed a skilled work force (more than 40% with two-year college degrees or better, compared with 30% nationally), but also demonstrated that these workers were readily available. The first surveys, conducted in the early 1990s, showed that within a 30-mile radius of Fargo, some 45,000 people were "underemployed," many in low-paying jobs for which they were overqualified, and that they were eager to offer their farm-bred work ethic if given a better opportunity.

Companies bought the pitch. Cargill Inc., the Minneapolis-based conglomerate, says local employees have proved so productive and able to adapt to technology that it has been able to run its Fargo accounting center with half the 250 employees it originally estimated when it located here in the mid-1990s. Navigation Technologies Inc., a Chicago-based maker of digital maps, says the productivity of its North Dakota workers helped persuade it to shut down production in Sunnyvale, Calif., last year and consolidate operations in Fargo.

SEI Information Technology Inc., a technical support firm, also of Chicago, has more than doubled its Fargo work force over the past 18 months to 275 and plans to add 25 more jobs by the end of the year.

Manufacturing employment in Fargo has grown by 1,000 jobs since 1995, and continues to expand while U.S. factory jobs decline. In October, Marvin Windows & Doors Inc. of Warroad, Minn., announced it would open a second plant in Fargo, adding up to 100 jobs to a cluster of window makers and suppliers that already employs about 800.

But success is gobbling up the very resource that launched it. Two years ago, a work-force survey showed that the number of underemployed had plunged to 13,000 -- just barely above the 12,000 jobs existing employers estimated they would need to fill in a few years. Meantime, the rural counties that have long replenished Fargo's labor pool are drying up as young people leave the state to escape struggling farm economies: The 20-to-34-year-old group shrunk 23% in North Dakota in the '90s, compared with 5% nationally.

The looming labor shortage has become such a concern that voters considered a ballot measure earlier this month to give tax breaks and $1,000 annual student-loan payments to young workers who stay in the state. Opposed by much of the political and business establishment, the measure failed, but recruiting workers remains near the top of the state's agenda. The state legislature appropriated $237,500 last year to help lure talent, some of which helps support NorthDakotahasjobs.com, a Web site listing jobs at North Dakota companies. Gov. John Hoeven even telephones certain people considering jobs in the state and urges them to accept.

Residents enjoy a street festival downtown. (picture)
 
Dakota expatriates are a particular recruiting target. As opportunities improve, political and business leaders hope they will return.

Michael Olsen, a Fargo native, thought he would never come back when he left the state in the early '80s to work as a senatorial aide in Washington, and later for a public-relations firm in Minneapolis. But a few years ago, he made a business trip to Fargo to visit a potential client, Great Plains Software, a home-grown company. Instead of luring Great Plains as a client, Great Plains lured him: Chief Executive Doug Burgum recruited Mr. Olsen to run the company's corporate communications. Mr. Olsen jumped at an opportunity he thought he would never see: working for a growing, international company and living in North Dakota. "Kids, we're going home," he told his children, who had never lived in the state.

It's a tougher sell for non-natives. Karen Edwards, an Illinois native, says she was happy in Houston, when her husband, Jeff, told her Great Plains was recruiting him for a job. She asked where the job was. He said it was a great company. She asked again where the job was. He said it would be a great opportunity. She asked where the job was a third time. "Fargo," her husband said. Ms. Edwards started laughing.

Ultimately, Great Plains -- now called Microsoft Business Solutions since Microsoft Corp. bought it for $1.1 billion last year -- offered a job to Ms. Edwards, too. After a visit, she agreed that Fargo would be the right place to raise a family, with its good schools, friendly people, low cost of living and little crime. In March 2000, they moved to Fargo to take jobs as marketing executives. They have renovated a century-old home and are living a "really, really nice life," says Ms. Edwards. She adds: "We look at it as the next adventure in our lives. We don't know anybody else who packed up and moved to Fargo."

Community and business leaders concede that Fargo isn't for everyone, but insist that if the local economy can provide good jobs, the area will continue to attract people like Mr. Olsen and the Edwardses -- and persuade more of the 20,000 college students in area to stay after graduation. That is, as long as companies don't get cold feet about moving to Fargo or expanding their operations here because they fear they can't find enough workers -- a challenge Fargo so far has managed to overcome.

"People have made a career predicting the doom and gloom of the prairies, but there are tremendous opportunities" says Joseph Chapman, president of North Dakota State University in Fargo. Besides, the winters really aren't that bad, adds a dead-serious Fargo Mayor Bruce Furness: "We only get one week of 35 below."

Write to Robert Gavin at robert.gavin@wsj.com
Updated November 21, 2002
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ct236

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Re:North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2002, 06:15:36 pm »

From the state-research email list:

       I know many of you would sat to disregard what the media has to say, but last i checked, people are moving out of north dakota so quicky, that towns are literally as in the past becoming ghost towns. anyone else see that segment on 60 minutes? the sentiment being that many in rural ND are movig to fargo, or out of the state altogether, i think the statistics on out of state migration support that as well. not that i would complain if i could buy a 60k house for 3k, but yeah, i'd feel guilty.......considerig how many northern states have had drought problems though, what is the water situation in the dakotas? anyone??
stefanie

   North Dakota has tons of water, Stef, and one of the biggest dam-created lakes in the U.S., Lake Sacajawea, backed up behind a dam on the upper Missouri River. The Wall Street Journal article had an interesting graph that didn't translate with population change figures between 1990 and 2000. Get this: During that time Fargo's population increased 19.7%, while the *state* population as a whole *decreased* by 3.2%. Among 20 to 34 year olds, Fargo's population increased during that time by 9.2%, while North Dakota's population in the same age range *decreased* by a whopping 22.8%. In the meantime, during that period employment increased in Fargo by 38%, while North Dakota's jobs increased by 14.6%. The net *loss* of people in ND from 1990 to 2000 was 37,334, while Fargo *increased( its population during that time by 7,517. Interesting, hah?   ---Tim Condon
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Hank

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Re:North Dakota -- Why or Why Not?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2003, 08:40:11 pm »

Quote
Why or why not would any of you consider including North Dakota in your FSP selection?
It's the farthest from any coast. ;)

It's got Fargo (see below).
What more could a guy want?

Oh.

You're gonna have to bring your own, Zack.
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