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Author Topic: Which state if you moved alone?  (Read 13385 times)

Solitar

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Which state if you moved alone?
« on: August 19, 2002, 12:26:02 pm »

Something to consider in selecting a state
The FSP dream of turning a state around is great -- if you could show up in enough numerical and activist strength to pull it off -- even if in just one city, county or town.  But what if, after committing to the move and finding a job and housing in a one of the state's cities, you find that you or your family are the only activists moving there? What if the rest scattered to other towns or larger cities in that state? What if, after the FSP decides on a state and announces the move, only a small portion of the 20,000 actually move in five years. Could you or your family politically, socially, and economically make it by yourselves?  Being left nearly alone on the front lines or out on point has happened to me in politics enough to be wary of something similar happening to FSP activists.

Yes, a few FSP activists could take the high, righteous, idealistic approach and bull on through in spite of it all.  But gaining a town council seat as a few libertarians have done here is no assurance of progress toward liberty.  If you rely on jobs or businesses that rely on local support, you could find yourselves struggling and unwelcome. You could find yourselves having to go along to get along--unless you have an income and social life (internet?) independent of whatever the locals think of you. Alternatively, having at least the chosen community already very close to libertarian would help the activists to better survive economically, politically, socially, and emotionally. This may be a fallback criteria for trying to turn an entire state.

Would it not be best to concentrate the incoming activists so they can easily reinforce each other as neighbors -- even if a half hour drive away? A self-reinforcing core of several hundred libertarians all moving to one city of several thousand people such St. Johnsbury (VT) or Berlin (NH) or Caribou (ME), or Spearfish (SD) or Williston (ND) or Havre (MT) or Hailey (ID) or Riverton (WY) or Sitka (AK) or Milford (DE) would be great for both them and, hopefully, the cause of liberty in that town and the state.

On the other hand, if you and yours could find yourselves in such an unwelcoming political or economic environment that you would move back "home", then that may be the wrong state for FSP'ers to pick.  In order to have enough local friends and supporters what state would you choose if you could find yourself being the only FSP activist in a town or county?

P.S. After deleting my superfulous posts in this thread, I'd like to leave in a consideration of many people who would rely on support from their churches.

Here are the percentages for all the states and most religions.
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=17;action=display;threadid=658
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 04:36:09 pm by Joe »
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cathleeninsc

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2002, 01:10:00 pm »

If, numerically, 20,000 activists in a state is significant, then I don't care if I am the only one in a community. I may not have the resources  to run, win and change my city council, but I do have the energy, motivation, and elbow grease to continue my activism in concert with 19,999 other activists around the state. I don't expect freedom overnight and I have lived enough places to know that I can manage pretty well anywhere in the U.S.

And if freedom doesn't spread as quickly as I think it will, I will be no worse off than if I had stayed here.

Cathleen in SC
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wolf_tracker

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2002, 01:43:32 pm »

This is one of the reasons I believe more ppl do not want to make commentments att.
Depending on the state, many believe this is doable.  But some of the other states, (mostly
east coast) this would be a lot more difficult.  I want to sign up but I want to wait a while
longer and see how the tides are flowing.

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wayimp

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2002, 01:54:16 pm »

This is why it is crucial to consider the ideology of the local population, rather than to think of supplanting them by mass migration. Look at NH. Do you really think that 20,000 people could galvanize the thinking of the whole state? You would encounter much resistance from people who already live there. Then look at Alaska. I would move there alone, and there would be 20,000+ there already that would share similar ideas. It would not take mass migration to turn things around; it would only take a catalyst to mobilize the people already there.
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Budd

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2002, 11:32:12 pm »

I'm with wayimp. If anyone thinks any state east of the Mississippi and 90% of those west can be taken over by 20,000 people they are whistling Dixe. (sp). The best chance of success is Alaska. The only other choice is an unincorporated possession of the US. There are only Two, and maybe three I am not sure about the Virgin Islands, that can have independance by a reforendum vote. They are Palmyra Island which has already been purchased by an environmental group. The other is the Island of Guam. Personaly I prefer Alaska. And I would move there if no one else would even consider it.
Bud in the peoples republic of California.
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ZionCurtain

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2002, 11:06:46 pm »

Me and the wife already discussed moving from behind the ZionCurtain to Montana or Wyoming before I stumbled on to this project. We are western folk who like wide open spaces and want some cheap acreage. I come from a long line of hillbillies and must uphold our tradition.  ;D  Just kidding on the last sentence.
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freedomroad

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2002, 11:39:32 pm »

I have recruited my brother.  Both of us have talked about the FSP for countless hours and have decided to move to WY or MT.  Right now my brother says he will move to WY by himself if the FSP picks another state.  I think I can get him to move to MT or AK and maybe even ID.  I am trying to get him to also move to NH but it will be very hard.  

We have a dream of buying lots of cheap land and making a personal ranch.  With 30-60 acres and a small house to start with.  We have plans for a few cheap horses, a 4 wheeler (he already has one), a small shooting range, and plenty of stars.  We have already talked about getting a canoe and similar water crafts.  Of course, all FSP members would be welcome to visit our ranch.  There is plenty of cheap land in WY near the heavy population centers of Salt Lake City, UT and Cheyenne, WY / Ft. Collins, CO.  Casper, and most of the rest of WY also has cheap land.  Within 45 min of Cheyenne looks like the best place for us.  Property taxes are very low on land in WY.  We live in west TN and love the water but west TN does not have much of it.

WY and MT are best for this because of the cheap land, open spaces, low taxes (at least in WY), and rivers (and mts) of the states.  

Before I found out about the FSP I was going to move to Texas or NV.  They both have cheap land, low taxes, and open spaces.  However, even if the FSP fell apart I would move to WY.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2003, 06:47:47 pm by FreedomRoad »
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ZionCurtain

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2002, 11:57:25 pm »

Keith, maybe I could buy a ranch near yours. Sounds like fun. Wyoming is only a short distance from the ZionCurtain so would be a relatively easy move. Maybe some of the FSPers that decide not to move out to NH when the vote comes down can all join up in Wyoming to try it out on a county level.
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freedomroad

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2002, 12:48:16 am »

Keith, maybe I could buy a ranch near yours. Sounds like fun. Wyoming is only a short distance from the ZionCurtain so would be a relatively easy move. Maybe some of the FSPers that decide not to move out to NH when the vote comes down can all join up in Wyoming to try it out on a county level.

That sounds good to me.  I hope 20,000 other FSP members will also move close to me :)

WY has very low taxes and is not currently trying to pass an income tax or raise property taxes like NH is.  Even if WY was trying to raise property taxes the taxes are so low it would hardly matter (except on principle).  AK has had an income tax before and might have one again...
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JT

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2002, 01:13:09 am »


At this point WY has my vote...
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mlilback

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2002, 01:50:34 am »

If I had to do it alone, it would be NH or VT. Both are very independent, have elected a good number of 3rd party candidates, are an easy weekend drive to a major metropolis, and neither are very conservative.

Mark
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Robert H.

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2002, 02:17:03 am »

Back before hearing about the FSP, the wife and I had talked of moving out to Montana or Alaska.  I've learned a great deal more about Wyoming lately though, so I'd have to say that, if making a move alone, I'd probably end up in Wyoming or Alaska.

No income tax in either state (bumps Montana down).
MouseBorg would probably approve of the fishing in both states.  ;D
Both states have some great mountain country.

ZionCurtain

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2002, 10:43:07 am »

I saw some pretty pieces of land availible for a fair price in the Black Hills area of Wyoming.
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Penfist

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2002, 10:53:21 am »

This is why it is crucial to consider the ideology of the local population, rather than to think of supplanting them by mass migration. Look at NH. Do you really think that 20,000 people could galvanize the thinking of the whole state? You would encounter much resistance from people who already live there. Then look at Alaska. I would move there alone, and there would be 20,000+ there already that would share similar ideas. It would not take mass migration to turn things around; it would only take a catalyst to mobilize the people already there.

I'm curious what you base your statement about New Hampshire on? Are you famialiar with the mindset in the state?
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I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.
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freedomroad

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Re:Which state if you moved alone?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2002, 01:28:28 pm »

I saw some pretty pieces of land availible for a fair price in the Black Hills area of Wyoming.

From what I have seem WY has the cheapest land.  This makes sense in that the state has lots of land (though not like MT) and a good chuck of it is not good for commercial farming.  However, people have started to understand that parts of MT, ND, and SD are really not goof for farming either, and so those states all have lots of cheap land

WY also has some of the lowest property taxes in the country.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2003, 06:50:37 pm by FreedomRoad »
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