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Author Topic: Why is everyone down on Deleware?  (Read 29184 times)

Koheleth

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Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« on: July 20, 2003, 09:32:05 pm »

I don't see too much talk on Deleware-- why? It's got a pop of only 800,000 (1/3 less than New Hampshire), it's NOT ridiculously cold, it's a good mix of rural and urban and MOST importantly...

It's right next to major East Coast job markets such as Baltimore, Philadelphia, and South Jersey.

It really offers something for everyone. What's NOT to like?
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anarchicluv

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Re:Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2003, 09:37:51 pm »

I don't see too much talk on Deleware-- why? It's got a pop of only 800,000 (1/3 less than New Hampshire), it's NOT ridiculously cold, it's a good mix of rural and urban and MOST importantly...

It's right next to major East Coast job markets such as Baltimore, Philadelphia, and South Jersey.

It really offers something for everyone. What's NOT to like?

The fact that it's close to HUGE statist populations?  Or that Wyoming is a better choice for a ton of reasons already spelled out throughout these forums?  

Interestingly enough (or not) Delaware was my number one pick when I first looked into the FSP, and Wyoming my last.  

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schletty

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Re:Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2003, 10:30:45 pm »

I am fairly close to DE, and it is among my least favorite choices.

1) Its cost of living is very high (pretty much everywhere)
2) That cost of living is largely influenced by the previously mentioned silly, statist policies of MD, NJ, and PA.
3) Geographically, it is incredibly small and not terribly diverse. You may have heard someone tease a NJ native by asking, "What exit [off the turnpike]?" Relatively speaking, NJ is a sprawling, rural wonderland.  





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thewaka

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Re:Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2003, 01:22:23 am »

It really offers something for everyone. What's NOT to like?

A permit for legal carry of concealed weapons is *incredibly* difficult to get. I am also concerned about Philly's response to changes in laws affecting guns, prostitution, and drugs. They might not be in DE, but if they believe DE is a threat, what might they do? What might the feds do?

Although we can change the laws after we get there, DH and I are unwilling to live there without the option to protect ourselves. We also have personal reasons not to choose it. It is our only opt-out.

Diana

PS--For those thinking perhaps personal reasons affect our choice of best state, NH or VT would win if based on personal reasons. Instead, we believe WY best.
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Zxcv

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Re:Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2003, 09:39:41 am »

1) It does very poorly in my big spreadsheet (I think it was in 9th place, last time I looked).

2) Not enough land. If we really get free we might want a fair amount of that because will should be drawing immigrants who want to be free.

3) I can't visualize DE being free, on an emotional level. I can visualize it with all the other states, especially with ID, MT, WY, AK and NH.

4) No way for freedom to spread regionally from it. ID/WY/MT is the best for that, New England next best. AK is big enough all by itself, and DE? Where does it spread to, NJ? Maryland?   ::)
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guy777

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Re:Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2003, 03:05:56 pm »

All these argument against Delaware are mostly Wyoming supporter arguements that are spoken against New Hampshire as well. Thus, these arguements have been indirectly disputed already by New Hampshire advocates.

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1) It does very poorly in my big spreadsheet (I think it was in 9th place, last time I looked).

Funny how you state it's your spreadsheet. I think it is pretty well known in this forum that you are a Strong Wyoming advocate.

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Not enough land.

An argument that has stained the east and west coast forum from it's inception.

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I can't visualize DE being free, on an emotional level. I can visualize it with all the other states, especially with ID, MT, WY, AK and NH.

This is just an opinion and is not based on facts. What do you really know about the people?

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No way for freedom to spread regionally from it. ID/WY/MT is the best for that, New England next best. AK is big enough all by itself, and DE? Where does it spread to, NJ? Maryland?


Your missing the point on Delaware. With Delaware we would not have to spread to different different states.  Their will be so many people we could recruit from surrounding states that it will not be necessary to do so.

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I am fairly close to DE, and it is among my least favorite choices.

1) Its cost of living is very high (pretty much everywhere)
2) That cost of living is largely influenced by the previously mentioned silly, statist policies of MD, NJ, and PA.
3) Geographically, it is incredibly small and not terribly diverse. You may have heard someone tease a NJ native by asking, "What exit [off the turnpike]?" Relatively speaking, NJ is a sprawling, rural wonderland.  


Cost of living is one of the lowest if not the lowest in the east coast. You can't compare Delaware to Pennsylvania or Maryland, for these states are very different. It is like saying New Hampshire is like Massachusetts just because it is next to it. As far as diversity, Delaware is the sixth most urban and eighth most rural state in the nation. NO comparison to New Jersey.   http://www2.newszap.com/area/delaware.html
« Last Edit: July 21, 2003, 03:13:08 pm by guy777 »
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Kelton Baker

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Re:Why is everyone down on Delaware?
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2003, 03:24:48 pm »

I just ran my spreadsheet where no one variable was any more than twice any other variable, and Delaware just placed 4th!

In all of our research for a litmus test and analyzing the laws and so forth, Delaware has done a poor showing repeatedly, but it does have a few positive aspects too.

I was a big fan of Delaware for a while but so many bad things made that idea slip away. . .

I do give Delaware credit for having a strong heritage of economic freedom, low federal dependency (mostly because it is so small)low federal land (again), a diverse population,  a somewhat above average accessible legislature. . .

My biggest problem with Delaware is the absolute statists that Delaware has elected and sent to Washington D.C. repeatedly, no comparison there between Wyoming,Idaho,New Hampshire, Alaska. . .

Show me how we could do it in Delaware and I might get excited about it again.  
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2003, 03:41:53 pm by exitus... »
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Zxcv

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Re:Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2003, 03:37:36 pm »

Quote
Quote

1) It does very poorly in my big spreadsheet (I think it was in 9th place, last time I looked).
 

Funny how you state it's your spreadsheet.

Send me your email address, I will send you the spreadsheet, then you can make it YOUR spreadsheet.

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I think it is pretty well known in this forum that you are a Strong Wyoming advocate.

Hmmm, does this mean my opinion is invalid?

Koheleth asked a question. I answered it with (yes, it's true) my opinion. Why get your knickers in a bundle, as they say?
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Tony

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Re:Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2003, 05:36:32 pm »

All of the reasons I opted-out of DE have already been stated.  I will not move to a place that has much less freedom than the place I'm in being I see little chance of success there.  Like my thing on the side says, "Anywhere but Delaware!"   ;D
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Mickey

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Re:Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2003, 05:52:35 pm »

Personally, I like DE. It scores high on the spreadsheet for me. It's not near perfect (like NH is ;)), but it will be my number two vote unless some one can give me a better reason than what is siad here already...
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Kelton Baker

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Re:Why is everyone down on DELAWARE?
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2003, 07:30:46 pm »

Delaware scores 0's in the 'Official Spreadsheet' comparisons on gun control, land planning, smoking restrictions (ties with California for highest in the nation), marijuana laws

It also gets low scores on helmet restrictions, insurance laws, seat-belts, health care mandates, and various measures of elected officials and who voted in elections.

On several economic factors it fares well, even highest by one.

It is highest in property crimes among our candidates, second to Alaska in violent crime.

On the unofficial spreadsheet, it fares about the same, a couple more low scores, a few more good scores; but since so many are so incredibly hostile to that spreadsheet of Zxcv's, I won't bring up the specifics. :'(


To me, Delaware has an entirely different 'flavor' than New Hampshire, even more than some Western states. But if Delaware was chosen, I think I would enjoy living there a lot more than I like California, especially with that moderate weather and far more business-friendly environment.  I really think we could accomplish a lot there, too.  Several other states look better, however.


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Koheleth

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Re:Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2003, 08:01:38 pm »

2) Not enough land. If we really get free we might want a fair amount of that because will should be drawing immigrants who want to be free.

4) No way for freedom to spread regionally from it. ID/WY/MT is the best for that, New England next best. AK is big enough all by itself, and DE? Where does it spread to, NJ? Maryland?   ::)

Not enough land? You sound like one of the Watermelons (green on the outside, red inside). Most people prefer to live in urban and suburban settings, which require very little land because one can always BUILD UP.

That leaves, even in a small state, the majority of land for rural uses. I'm from Philly, and know Deleware well. There's Philly suburbs in the north, extended Baltimore suburbs in the south, a gorgeous coastline, temperate weather-- and a large amount of rural space.

Just remember, Israel is about the size of Deleware, has a population 8X larger, and is STILL mostly uninhabited desert. Deleware is the same way.
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Koheleth

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Re:Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2003, 08:02:09 pm »

Replacing desert with "open forest or rural land."
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Koheleth

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Re:Why is everyone down on Deleware?
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2003, 08:04:40 pm »

I think the argument of things spreading "regionally" is rather silly. States copy each other all across the nation-- not just their neighbors.

A state like Deleware, with temperate weather and easy access to East Coast cities, also makes it a MUCH more attractive destination for potential immigrants than New Hampshire or Wyoming.

I'm an East Coaster. I haven't signed up for the FSP because I have no intention of living in NH or any other cold, bitter, rural state. I would live in Deleware.
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Koheleth

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Re:Why is everyone down on Delaware?
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2003, 08:09:43 pm »

I just ran my spreadsheet where no one variable was any more than twice any other variable, and Delaware just placed 4th!

In all of our research for a litmus test and analyzing the laws and so forth, Delaware has done a poor showing repeatedly, but it does have a few positive aspects too.

I was a big fan of Delaware for a while but so many bad things made that idea slip away. . .

I do give Delaware credit for having a strong heritage of economic freedom, low federal dependency (mostly because it is so small)low federal land (again), a diverse population,  a somewhat above average accessible legislature. . .

My biggest problem with Delaware is the absolute statists that Delaware has elected and sent to Washington D.C. repeatedly, no comparison there between Wyoming,Idaho,New Hampshire, Alaska. . .

Show me how we could do it in Delaware and I might get excited about it again.  
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Deleware has only 800,000 people (NH has 1.2 million). Of those 800,000 figure about 600,000 are voting age. Of those, figure only a 1/3 (at MOST) actually vote. That means that our 20,000 immediately becomes 10% of the Deleware voting population. Now consider that, as activists, we would be much more likely to dedicate our time and money towards electing candidates we like. That 10% can quickly and easily become 50%+ of the state's politically active class-- giving us a good chance of winning converts.

Even with JUST a 10% block (and it would be higher due to commitment and money), that is more than enough to swing elections away from the biggest statists. Not that Deleware is terribly statist anyway-- no state sales tax! Favorable business environment! Wonderful incorporation laws and excellent pro-business courts!
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