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Author Topic: NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.  (Read 20083 times)

Greg B.

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NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« on: July 09, 2003, 09:08:24 am »

In a libertarian state, it's pretty clear that we are going to want to legalize drugs, gambling, and prostitution.  I began to wonder whether it would be easier to legalize these things in New Hampshire or Wyoming.

I have no data to back this up, but Wyoming's culture seems more open to getting this done.  Though I think New Hampshire residents hate taxes the same as Wyoming residents, my perception is that getting drugs, gambling, and prostitution legalized would be more difficult in New Hampshire.

Maybe I'm generalizing the West versus the Northeast, but that's the way I see it.

I'd love to hear some arguments from either side on this issue.

Greg
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Karl

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2003, 09:33:00 am »

I have no data to back this up, but Wyoming's culture seems more open to getting this done.  Though I think New Hampshire residents hate taxes the same as Wyoming residents, my perception is that getting drugs, gambling, and prostitution legalized would be more difficult in New Hampshire.

Maybe I'm generalizing the West versus the Northeast, but that's the way I see it.

My own perceptions are oppostite yours.  I perceive Wyoming as being very conservative and far less tolerant of the things you mention.  We have been given the impression from a number of Wyoming residents, including the governor's office, that we are "welcome to come, but don't try to change anything!"  Of course, radical change is what we are proposing; these types of debates are par for the course in NH.  WY will be far more "shocked" than would be NH.
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Rearden

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2003, 09:41:58 am »

The most recent year for which such data is available, 1997, shows that NH has a marijuana arrest rate of 158.99 per 100,000 residents.  This is the 4th lowest rate in the country.  The only candidate states to have a lower rate are VT and ND, which come in at 151.02 and 131.05, respectively.  

Wyoming came in at a nice round 285, the 7th highest rate in the nation and an increase of 34.25% since 1995.  

Source: http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5069&wtm_format=wide

I hope this lays to rest any notion that WY is more tolerant of drug use than NH.
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EMOR

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2003, 10:16:10 am »

The rather obvious answer is the western states are more tolerant of the 3. More states out west have medical marijuana on the books, already have gambling pretty much everywhere now, and prostitution is legal in parts of Nevada.

So it is not a stretch in the western lifestyle like it would be in the New England area.
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Penfist

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2003, 10:33:18 am »

So the arrest rate is irrelevant?

You seem, to me, to be just like all the other (in general, with Joe aka Solitar being the exception) slavering Western supporters.

Lots of opinions, very few sources of raw data to back them up.

In the below post, you completely ignore Keith's statistical argument in favor of your own unsupported opinion.

Perhaps a basic rule learned by journalists would be helpful to you:

Who, what, where, when and why. Answer these five questions and your posts will always be taken seriously.

For instance, in the following statement by you, More states out west have medical marijuana on the books," you fail to tell us which Western states have medical marijuana laws (who). You do mention the what (medical marijauna tolerance). You miss out on the where by being too general (we want to move to a specific state and need to know which Western states support medical pot). You don't go into when the states passed their laws, and you don't tell us why they passed their laws.

To be fair, not all five W's are always necessary, but you can't expect to be taken too seriously if you don't give more details.

If you want me to believe you when you say that chocolate ice cream is the best flavor, you'll have to give me a taste, instead of insisting that it is because you say so.

By the way, the gambling portion of your argument is fairly weak. Ever hear of Atlantic City? How about Biloxi, Mississippi? Granted, Las Vegas is the crown jewel of them all, but there is plenty of gambling on the East Coast.

Just because prostitution is legal in some of Nevada doesn't mean that Wyoming or Montana are receptive to the idea. Where is some hard evidence that supports your opinion?

The rather obvious answer is the western states are more tolerant of the 3. More states out west have medical marijuana on the books, already have gambling pretty much everywhere now, and prostitution is legal in parts of Nevada.

So it is not a stretch in the western lifestyle like it would be in the New England area.
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Penfist

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2003, 10:36:22 am »

I would use the term decriminalize. Using the term legalize lends credence to the idea that you need government authorization to put a part of your body into someone else's cavity, or vice versa. It supports the statists idea that government somehow has any right to proscribe you from sniffing Ajax, if that's what floats your boat. It furthers the myth that government has some level of right to the fruits of your labor, or that it can tell you not to piss them away when government itself pisses away more money every year than all gambling debts combined.

In a libertarian state, it's pretty clear that we are going to want to legalize drugs, gambling, and prostitution.  I began to wonder whether it would be easier to legalize these things in New Hampshire or Wyoming.

I have no data to back this up, but Wyoming's culture seems more open to getting this done.  Though I think New Hampshire residents hate taxes the same as Wyoming residents, my perception is that getting drugs, gambling, and prostitution legalized would be more difficult in New Hampshire.

Maybe I'm generalizing the West versus the Northeast, but that's the way I see it.

I'd love to hear some arguments from either side on this issue.

Greg
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Dalamar49

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2003, 10:37:33 am »

Well, if WY is arresting pot smokers by the boat load (wagon load?) I won't move there.

EMOR definetely right about the west being pro-pot...but its mostly the far west states that are so pro-pot... like Washington, Oregon, California, Hawaii, Alaska and Nevada... I haven't heard about any pro-pot movements in any of the more rural western states...but hopefully I'm wrong....
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Stumpy

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2003, 10:38:19 am »

The rather obvious answer is the western states are more tolerant of the 3. More states out west have medical marijuana on the books...

Would any of those states be under consideration by the FSP?

As to tolerance, maybe we should ask Matthew Shepherd if he believes WY is tolerant.  ;)

I believe if we choose WY, we will loose most of the support of the left-libertarians, thereby increasing the likelihood that the FSP will not make it 20,000.

Of course, many WY supporters take it as a given that if WY is chosen, we will not get another 15,000 signers. This is why many of the WY supporters tout their fall back strategy, "what will happen if the FSP does not reach 20,000."

New Hampshire offers a warm reception to both right and left libertarians, thus enticing a greater pool of people to help us reach our goal of 20,000. ;D
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EMOR

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2003, 11:05:37 am »

The rather obvious answer is the western states are more tolerant of the 3. More states out west have medical marijuana on the books...

Would any of those states be under consideration by the FSP?

As to tolerance, maybe we should ask Matthew Shepherd if he believes WY is tolerant.  ;)

I believe if we choose WY, we will loose most of the support of the left-libertarians, thereby increasing the likelihood that the FSP will not make it 20,000.

Of course, many WY supporters take it as a given that if WY is chosen, we will not get another 15,000 signers. This is why many of the WY supporters tout their fall back strategy, "what will happen if the FSP does not reach 20,000."

New Hampshire offers a warm reception to both right and left libertarians, thus enticing a greater pool of people to help us reach our goal of 20,000. ;D

So are you saying no gay person has been murdered anywhere else? Give me a break.
Also you assumption that we will only get 5,000 FSP members if Wyoming is chosen is assinine.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2003, 11:17:22 am by EMOR »
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EMOR

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2003, 11:14:12 am »

So the arrest rate is irrelevant?

You seem, to me, to be just like all the other (in general, with Joe aka Solitar being the exception) slavering Western supporters.

Lots of opinions, very few sources of raw data to back them up.

In the below post, you completely ignore Keith's statistical argument in favor of your own unsupported opinion.

Perhaps a basic rule learned by journalists would be helpful to you:

Who, what, where, when and why. Answer these five questions and your posts will always be taken seriously.

For instance, in the following statement by you, More states out west have medical marijuana on the books," you fail to tell us which Western states have medical marijuana laws (who). You do mention the what (medical marijauna tolerance). You miss out on the where by being too general (we want to move to a specific state and need to know which Western states support medical pot). You don't go into when the states passed their laws, and you don't tell us why they passed their laws.

To be fair, not all five W's are always necessary, but you can't expect to be taken too seriously if you don't give more details.

If you want me to believe you when you say that chocolate ice cream is the best flavor, you'll have to give me a taste, instead of insisting that it is because you say so.

By the way, the gambling portion of your argument is fairly weak. Ever hear of Atlantic City? How about Biloxi, Mississippi? Granted, Las Vegas is the crown jewel of them all, but there is plenty of gambling on the East Coast.

Just because prostitution is legal in some of Nevada doesn't mean that Wyoming or Montana are receptive to the idea. Where is some hard evidence that supports your opinion?

The rather obvious answer is the western states are more tolerant of the 3. More states out west have medical marijuana on the books, already have gambling pretty much everywhere now, and prostitution is legal in parts of Nevada.

So it is not a stretch in the western lifestyle like it would be in the New England area.
You seem to post for starting fights rather than having anything intelligent to say.
 If you would read my post again I said "gambling is pretty much everywhere now". Talk to me about being a reporter and you cannot even read. As for the fact that more states have medical marijuana on the books, if you don't know that then you must be living in a cellar for the last few years. There are internet search engines for your disposal if you need more info. About prostitution, I said it is legal in parts of Nevada. Which means it is a part of western culture. Never said that it guarantees success in Wyoming.
Now please take a reading comprehension class. It would help you cause to push what you want. Same as dropping your insults on everyone who has an opinion that differs from yours.
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Stumpy

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2003, 11:27:41 am »

The rather obvious answer is the western states are more tolerant of the 3. More states out west have medical marijuana on the books...

Would any of those states be under consideration by the FSP?

As to tolerance, maybe we should ask Matthew Shepherd if he believes WY is tolerant.  ;)

I believe if we choose WY, we will loose most of the support of the left-libertarians, thereby increasing the likelihood that the FSP will not make it 20,000.

Of course, many WY supporters take it as a given that if WY is chosen, we will not get another 15,000 signers. This is why many of the WY supporters tout their fall back strategy, "what will happen if the FSP does not reach 20,000."

New Hampshire offers a warm reception to both right and left libertarians, thus enticing a greater pool of people to help us reach our goal of 20,000. ;D

So are you saying no gay person has been murdered anywhere else? Give me a break.

None lately have received the national attention of the Matthew Shepherd murder.

Let’s think about IMAGE. The image of a gay man being beaten to death in WY can only give negative recruitment consequences.

Say you are a left libertarian. Would you be disposed to join the FSP, if by joining, you must move to the state where Matthew Shepherd was beaten to death?

I believe the state of New Hampshire offers the FSP its greatest chance of success.

Also you assumption that we will only get 5,000 FSP members if Wyoming is chosen is assinine.

1) What are you talking about? Where did I say this?
2) Check your spelling of asinine.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2003, 11:30:30 am by Doug(stumpy) »
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EMOR

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2003, 11:36:31 am »

The rather obvious answer is the western states are more tolerant of the 3. More states out west have medical marijuana on the books...

Would any of those states be under consideration by the FSP?

As to tolerance, maybe we should ask Matthew Shepherd if he believes WY is tolerant.  ;)

I believe if we choose WY, we will loose most of the support of the left-libertarians, thereby increasing the likelihood that the FSP will not make it 20,000.

Of course, many WY supporters take it as a given that if WY is chosen, we will not get another 15,000 signers. This is why many of the WY supporters tout their fall back strategy, "what will happen if the FSP does not reach 20,000."

New Hampshire offers a warm reception to both right and left libertarians, thus enticing a greater pool of people to help us reach our goal of 20,000. ;D

So are you saying no gay person has been murdered anywhere else? Give me a break.

None lately have received the national attention of the Matthew Shepherd murder.

Let?s think about IMAGE. The image of a gay man being beaten to death in WY can only give negative recruitment consequences.

Say you are a left libertarian. Would you be disposed to join the FSP, if by joining, you must move to the state where Matthew Shepherd was beaten to death?

Also you assumption that we will only get 5,000 FSP members if Wyoming is chosen is assinine.

1) What are you talking about? Where did I say this?
2) Check your spelling of asinine.

The Sheppard thing happened many years ago. All the sudden it makes Wyoming bad? How does a politcal movement relate to a murder of a gay student anyway? There is no relation. You seem to just bring up any dirt to discredit Wyoming. Yet I don't see the Wyoming supporters doing the same to NH.

Also thanks for being the spelling police. If that is all you have to throw at me then I will live. Anyway asinine needed the extra "s" to accurately picture your argument.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2003, 11:38:45 am by EMOR »
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Penfist

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2003, 11:49:17 am »

It warms my heart to be able to agree with EMOR on one issue.

Unless the murder of Tim Sheppard was supported by a strong minority or larger of Wyoming residents, I don't see how it affects whether or not I will rate Wyoming highly in the vote.

By the way, EMOR backwards is ROME. Is that a coincidence?
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Sebastian

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2003, 11:52:41 am »

Quote
EMOR backwards is ROME. Is that a coincidence?
It's a... a... wait, I know...

No, I forget. Palindrome, tell me what that's called :)
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Penfist

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Re:NH vs. WY on drug legalization, etc.
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2003, 11:55:16 am »

So all you got out of my post was that I like to start fights and that I misinterpreted your statement to mean everywhere in the West, rather than everywhere in general?

I won't run from a fight, certainly, but I hardly ever start them.

When you run your mouth the burden of doing related research is on you, not me.

When I run my mouth, I try to back up what I'm saying by providing handy little things called URLs :)

If you're trying to sell me a pair of shoes called Wyoming or Montana and I ask you what the lining is made of, it's kind of dumb to tell me to go find out myself.

Don't ya think, Hoss? Slide on over to this barstool and let's armwrassle.

Quote
You seem to post for starting fights rather than having anything intelligent to say.
 If you would read my post again I said "gambling is pretty much everywhere now". Talk to me about being a reporter and you cannot even read. As for the fact that more states have medical marijuana on the books, if you don't know that then you must be living in a cellar for the last few years. There are internet search engines for your disposal if you need more info. About prostitution, I said it is legal in parts of Nevada. Which means it is a part of western culture. Never said that it guarantees success in Wyoming.
Now please take a reading comprehension class. It would help you cause to push what you want. Same as dropping your insults on everyone who has an opinion that differs from yours.
Quote
« Last Edit: July 09, 2003, 12:16:01 pm by Palindrome »
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