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Author Topic: This is distressing  (Read 9038 times)

ZionCurtain

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This is distressing
« on: July 02, 2003, 11:09:17 am »

We have been led to say how great NH is economically, when a came across a LP candidate in NH who had this to say:

I am running for office because I know that most families in New Hampshire are struggling to pay their bills, and can't afford any additional taxes.

We already get an astounding amount of money in federal grants. Why can't the government seem to provide any services for this money?

This is from Michelle Otterson on the LP website. Tells us Michelle what services do you want the Government to provides us with? Why should I move to NH just to struggle to make ends meet when I can do that anywhere else?

Anybody else want to read this here is the link.

http://lightning.prohosting.com/~ksclp/otterson.html
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Michelle

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2003, 11:28:54 am »

Zion - I'm a different Michelle, but give me a break. New Hampshire has high property taxes, everyone know's that. But we have no general income tax and no sales tax. New Hampshire's overall tax burden is the lowest in the nation per capita.

#1 NH    4.54%    1st in nation
#2 SD    5.05%    2nd in nation
#3 MT    7.26%    28th in nation
#4 WY    7.61%    31st in nation
#5 ND    7.94%    34th in nation
#6 AK    8.04%    36th in nation
#7 ID    8.32%    39th in nation
#8 ME    8.63%    43rd in nation
#9 DE    9.19%    47th in nation
#10 VT    9.57%    48th in nation

As all Granite Stater's do, I HATE TAXES. Yet, I have to tell you, these high property taxes, paid twice a year, hurt, and that may actually be a blessing in disguise. We aren't being nickled and dimed through sales and income taxes like other states. We pay our taxes in one lump sum - we see it and pay it all at once -  which is the primary reason that taxes remain so low in NH. We are vigilant at guarding against any tax increases.

As far as struggling to pay our bills...sure, people struggle everywhere. But, in New Hampshire we have the HIGHEST PER CAPITA INCOME of the ten candidate states. That income has also had the HIGHEST PERCENTAGE OF GROWTH over the past 22 years.

Ranked in current descending order:

New Hampshire
$34,334
275%

Delaware
$32,779
226%

Alaska
$32,151
147%

Wyoming
$30,578
178%

Vermont
$29,567
272%

Maine
$27,744
258%

North Dakota
$26,982
212%

South Dakota
$26,566
241%

Idaho
$25,057
209%

Montana
$25,020
200%

New Hampshire  is also second only to Alaska for offering the lowest poverty rates.

#1 Alaska - 7th in nation
#2 New Hampshire - 10th in nation
#3 Vermont - 13th in nation
#4 Delaware - 15th in nation
#5 Maine - 17th in nation
#6 South Dakota - 27th in nation
#7 Wyoming - 29th in nation
#8 North Dakota - 38th in nation
#9 Idaho - 39th in nation
#10 Montana - 45th in nation
« Last Edit: July 02, 2003, 11:57:28 am by Michelle »
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ZionCurtain

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2003, 11:50:32 am »

Thanks for the number crunching. It proves my point in another thread.

I did a little bit of the analysis for you. Living in Manchester, NH making 40,000 a year is the equivilant of making 30,000 in Casper, Wyoming or 33,000 in Cheyenne, Wyoming. That is a clear 3-5 dollars an hour less to live the same lifestyle. Try Concord, NH the difference is 5-7 dollars an hour. How about Hanover it is 8-10 an hour more to live there. Nashau and Portsmouth is similar to Concord.

I am beginning to think that I may not be able to afford to move there, without a job guarantee first.

With Michelle's above per capita income post. Wyoming people live better when you factor in cost of living:

On average a Wyoming worker makes $14.70 per hour
On average a NH worker makes $16.50 per hour

When you factor in that it takes 5-10 per hour more to have the same kind of living in NH.

I think the LP candidate who said " that most families in New Hampshire are struggling to pay their bills" is correct and I do not want to be one of them.
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Michelle

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2003, 11:53:09 am »

Oh, I forgot: as far as money New Hampshire gets from the federal government:

New Hampshire offers the lowest dependence on federal dollars among the ten candidate states and is the fourth lowest in the nation! The amount of money that the state gets back for every $1 paid in federal taxes:

$0.71 New Hampshire
$0.86 Delaware
$1.12 Vermont
$1.14 Wyoming
$1.24 Idaho
$1.31 Maine
$1.50 South Dakota
$1.63 Alaska
$1.67 Montana
$1.95 North Dakota

States that receive more from the central government than they pay in taxes are less likely to seek fiscal autonomy or sovereignty. New Hampshire is the clear choice. It is one of only two candidate states that receives a NEGATIVE amount.

Farm subsidies are also interesting:

Total farm subsidies:

         $98,000  Alaska
    $1,329,000  New Hampshire
    $4,088,000  Maine
    $4,396,000  Vermont
  $18,069,000  Wyoming
  $23,520,000  Delaware
$152,736,000  Idaho
$205,929,000  Montana
$572,483,000  North Dakota
$575,744,000  South Dakota

Per capita farm subsidies:

    $0.16    Alaska
    $1.08    New Hampshire
    $3.21    Maine
    $7.22    Vermont
  $30.02    Delaware
  $36.59    Wyoming
$118.07    Idaho
$228.25    Montana
$762.73    South Dakota
$891.44    North Dakota
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Penfist

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2003, 11:55:14 am »

No offense, but most families everywhere are struggling to pay their bills after being raped by the Feds year after year.

Even in Wyoming I would imagine it's an issue.
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Michelle

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2003, 11:55:18 am »

I think the LP candidate who said " that most families in New Hampshire are struggling to pay their bills" is correct and I do not want to be one of them.

Not according to the poverty rates; at least not as high a percentage as many other states:

#1 Alaska - 7th in nation
#2 New Hampshire - 10th in nation
#3 Vermont - 13th in nation
#4 Delaware - 15th in nation
#5 Maine - 17th in nation
#6 South Dakota - 27th in nation
#7 Wyoming - 29th in nation
#8 North Dakota - 38th in nation
#9 Idaho - 39th in nation
#10 Montana - 45th in nation
« Last Edit: July 02, 2003, 11:56:27 am by Michelle »
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ZionCurtain

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2003, 11:59:55 am »

Poverty rates are based on total income not cost of living. Looks like Nh is not so great after all. I would be taking a $3-$8 dollar an hour pay cut as opposed to Wyoming.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2003, 12:01:00 pm by ZionCurtain »
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Kelton Baker

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2003, 12:00:33 pm »



I am running for office because I know that most families in New Hampshire are struggling to pay their bills, and can't afford any additional taxes.  ...


Don't give too much credence to what a politician says, even a libertarian politician.  They all like to make it sound like everything is really bad and only going to get worse unless they get elected.

Of course, the libertarians are the only ones who can honestly say anything like that ;)

In addition, take 'poverty rates' with a grain of salt too, they were created by politicians in office who arbitrarily decide at what level people are living in poverty and frequently raise the standard to increase their "everyone is struggling" arguments.
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ZionCurtain

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2003, 12:07:08 pm »



I am running for office because I know that most families in New Hampshire are struggling to pay their bills, and can't afford any additional taxes.  ...


Don't give too much credence to what a politician says, even a libertarian politician.  They all like to make it sound like everything is really bad and only going to get worse unless they get elected.

Of course, the libertarians are the only ones who can honestly say anything like that ;)

In addition, take 'poverty rates' with a grain of salt too, they were created by politicians in office who arbitrarily decide at what level people are living in poverty and frequently raise the standard to increase their "everyone is struggling" arguments.
29
Exactly, our own board "politicians" say NH we will be better off economically, but to people in the state they say everyone is struggling. Nice contradictions, I guess what they say is determined by what they are selling. No matter if I have to move to NH as opposed to Wyomig I will take a $3-$8 an hour pay cut depending where I choose to reside. My calculation where based on 2 of the most expensive place to live in Wyoming to 10 cities in NH. NH was vastly more expensive in all.
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Leonard

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2003, 02:42:56 pm »

take 'poverty rates' with a grain of salt too, they were created by politicians in office who arbitrarily decide at what level people are living in poverty and frequently raise the standard to increase their "everyone is struggling" arguments.

The main problem with "poverty" as federally defined is that it does not take account of near-cash payments - most particularly, poverty relief measures such as food stamps.  A family of four (two kids) earning $18000/year is "poor".  Give them $10000 in food stamps, and they are still "poor".  Give them a $2000 raise, and they are not "poor".  

That's right, many federal programs to ameliorate poverty - food stamps, school lunches - may or may not help poor people, but they don't (and can't) solve "poverty" by definition.  Federal poverty fighters don't want to succeed; that would be to admit victory which would lead to defunding and loss of power.

Another big problem with "poverty" is that it is not geographically adjusted.  If you are "poor" in New York City you are "poor" in rural New Hampshire, even though the cost of living is much higher in NYC than rural NH.  
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ZionCurtain

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2003, 07:36:42 pm »

This is very distressing indeed.
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Dave Mincin

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2003, 08:37:25 pm »

Just curious Zioncurtain...Why do you insist on taking a pay cut when you move to NH?

Personally I'm going to go for more income, and believe I can do that in NH!

Keep the faith my fellow freedom fighter :)

Dave

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ZionCurtain

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2003, 09:06:57 am »

Just curious Zioncurtain...Why do you insist on taking a pay cut when you move to NH?

Personally I'm going to go for more income, and believe I can do that in NH!

Keep the faith my fellow freedom fighter :)

Dave


LOL, I am not insisting on taking a paycut. But the high cost of living in NH will and the wages in NH will mean I am taking a pay cut.
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Dave Mincin

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2003, 08:28:27 pm »

Give yourself more credit my friend.  Your talented intelligent and believe in freedom, my thought is you can make more than enough in NH to compensate for any increase in the cost of living.

And you will have friends close by who feel as you do!

Dave
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MajesticLeo

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Re:This is distressing
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2003, 08:35:09 pm »

Well, being as I am retired on a "fixed income", it would certainly be a major "pay cut" for me.  Oh well, guess I could always be a Wal-Mart greeter.
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