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Author Topic: New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA  (Read 22573 times)

Rearden

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New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« on: July 01, 2003, 05:38:51 pm »

In the Wyoming announcement that was sent out to the membership a subjective, inherently unprovable statement was sent out as fact:  that Wyoming is the most libertarian state in the nation.

Others have made the same assertion, notably ZionCurtain, who has made this statement over and over again, as if doing so will make it true.  An example is below, one of dozens.

By the facts in front of me, New Hampshire is the most libertarian state in the nation.  I challenge a supporter of the other states to present a coherent, ALL-INCLUSIVE case why another state should take the claim.

"All-inclusive" means that cherry-picking is not allowed, you can't just ignore facts when they are convenient or spin neutral facts your way.  Attempts to do so will be laughingly pointed out.

Go ahead, Keith and Paul, take a whack.  I'm looking forward to it.  


If the LP has not failed in NH then why is it not already a free state? It has less liberty than other states we are considering, how can you say that is success?

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ZionCurtain

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2003, 05:58:34 pm »

In the Wyoming announcement that was sent out to the membership a subjective, inherently unprovable statement was sent out as fact:  that Wyoming is the most libertarian state in the nation.

Others have made the same assertion, notably ZionCurtain, who has made this statement over and over again, as if doing so will make it true.  An example is below, one of dozens.

By the facts in front of me, New Hampshire is the most libertarian state in the nation.  I challenge a supporter of the other states to present a coherent, ALL-INCLUSIVE case why another state should take the claim.

"All-inclusive" means that cherry-picking is not allowed, you can't just ignore facts when they are convenient or spin neutral facts your way.  Attempts to do so will be laughingly pointed out.

Go ahead, Keith and Paul, take a whack.  I'm looking forward to it.  


If the LP has not failed in NH then why is it not already a free state? It has less liberty than other states we are considering, how can you say that is success?

My statement was in response to someone stating that NH was a LP success story, glad to see the spin.
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Rearden

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2003, 06:07:07 pm »

My statement was in response to someone stating that NH was a LP success story, glad to see the spin.

Compared with the rest of the nation, the LPNH is a huge success story, with 28 offices held by 26 libertarians.  Compare this with ONE for Wyoming and ZERO for Montana.  We have two Libertarians working in the statehouse, one at the right hand of Governor and libertarian Craig Benson, the other directing the bills of the Senate.

Reason number one why NH is the most libertarian state in the nation.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2003, 06:07:43 pm by Keith Murphy »
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ZionCurtain

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2003, 06:08:51 pm »

My statement was in response to someone stating that NH was a LP success story, glad to see the spin.

Compared with the rest of the nation, the LPNH is a huge success story, with 28 offices held by 26 libertarians.  Compare this with ONE for Wyoming and ZERO for Montana.  We have two Libertarians working in the statehouse, one at the right hand of Governor and libertarian Craig Benson, the other directing the bills of the Senate.

Reason number one why NH is the most libertarian state in the nation.
How many state government employees in Wyoming and NH?
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ZionCurtain

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2003, 06:10:06 pm »

My statement was in response to someone stating that NH was a LP success story, glad to see the spin.

Compared with the rest of the nation, the LPNH is a huge success story, with 28 offices held by 26 libertarians.  Compare this with ONE for Wyoming and ZERO for Montana.  We have two Libertarians working in the statehouse, one at the right hand of Governor and libertarian Craig Benson, the other directing the bills of the Senate.

Reason number one why NH is the most libertarian state in the nation.
I thought Benson was an independent, is he truly LP or just trying to swing our vote?
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Racer X

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2003, 06:14:45 pm »

You New Hampshire guys aren't getting the message yet.  A very large number of FSPers want nothing to do with the LP !!!

Read some of the old threads about the LP.  This is one of the biggest negatives for NH.



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Penfist

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2003, 06:29:05 pm »

So which is more important? Disassociating yourself from bad memories/experiences with the LP or finding a state where you can become free?
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Michelle

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2003, 06:33:00 pm »

You New Hampshire guys aren't getting the message yet.  A very large number of FSPers want nothing to do with the LP !!!

Read some of the old threads about the LP.  This is one of the biggest negatives for NH.
Racer X

It would be inaccurate and a big mistake to ever confuse LP National with LP New Hampshire.
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Rearden

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2003, 06:36:45 pm »

How many state government employees in Wyoming and NH?

According to http://data.bls.gov/labjava/outside.jsp?survey=sm WY has 64,700 government employees out of 494,423 residents, a full 13.1% of the workforce!!!  This is the worst of the ten candidate states!  Compare this with NH, with 89,400 government employees out of 1,259,181 residents, for only 7.1% of the workforce.

Anticipating your objection, that I used percentages instead of whole numbers, I suggest you take it up with Jason, as that is exactly how he used it when designing his spreadsheet.  I believe even Paul used overall percentages when designing his spreadsheet.  To do otherwise is to manipulate the data to achieve a desired result.  If you torture the data enough, it will confess.

Smallest Government Sector Per Capita.  

Reason number two that NH is the most libertarian state in the nation.
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ZionCurtain

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2003, 06:42:10 pm »

How many state government employees in Wyoming and NH?

According to http://data.bls.gov/labjava/outside.jsp?survey=sm WY has 64,700 government employees out of 494,423 residents, a full 13.1% of the workforce!!!  This is the worst of the ten candidate states!  Compare this with NH, with 89,400 government employees out of 1,259,181 residents, for only 7.1% of the workforce.

Anticipating your objection, that I used percentages instead of whole numbers, I suggest you take it up with Jason, as that is exactly how he used it when designing his spreadsheet.  I believe even Paul used overall percentages when designing his spreadsheet.  To do otherwise is to manipulate the data to achieve a desired result.  If you torture the data enough, it will confess.

Smallest Government Sector Per Capita.  

Reason number two that NH is the most libertarian state in the nation.
Are these numbers including federal employees?
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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2003, 06:54:34 pm »

Quote from: ZionCurtain link=board=5;threadid=2230;start=0#msg30707
[quote
Are these numbers including federal employees?

Yes.  In rereading your post you did say "state government employees."  WY and NH have 7300 and 8300 federal employees, respectively, according to the same source.  Subtracting these figures from the earlier "all-government" employment figures gives us the following:

WY 57400 11.65%
NH 81100 6.4%
« Last Edit: July 01, 2003, 06:56:24 pm by Keith Murphy »
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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2003, 06:57:32 pm »

Reason number two that NH is the most libertarian state in the nation.
Are these numbers including federal employees?
Quote

Yes.  In rereading your post you did say "state government employees."  WY and NH have 7300 and 8300 federal employees, respectively, according to the same source.  Subtracting these figures from the earlier "all-government" employment figures gives us the following:

NH 57400 11.65%
WY 81100 6.4%
I kind of figured Wyoming had a smaller government, considering the size of the state they are doing a good job. I wonder how many of the feds work in Yellowstone.
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ZionCurtain

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2003, 06:59:39 pm »

On the same note of Benson being a "closet" libertarian, we can assume that others are. Maybe even in a place called Wyoming. Where they already have more freedoms than NH. Not such a big stretch now is it.  ;D
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ZionCurtain

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2003, 07:01:58 pm »

What are the legislature sizes in both Wyoming and NH? How many of them are LP?
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Rearden

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Re:New Hampshire is the Most Libertarian State in the USA
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2003, 07:13:23 pm »

I kind of figured Wyoming had a smaller government, considering the size of the state they are doing a good job. I wonder how many of the feds work in Yellowstone.

Go back and look again.  WY has the larger government, per capita.  I modified my post immediately, when I saw that I had mixed up the state abbreviations.
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