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Author Topic: Reasons to vote for Maine  (Read 5740 times)

Solitar

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Reasons to vote for Maine
« on: July 01, 2003, 04:36:00 am »

Since the state vote is over, I've withdrawn the reasons.
Maybe someday you all will discover Maine's advantages.
I've posted them elsewhere on this forum too.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2003, 10:00:04 pm by Joe, aka, Solitar »
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jgmaynard

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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (20 so far)
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2003, 08:11:28 am »

And as I understand, the coves of Maine were used for centuries by pirates to hide from British and American ships.... Not that we are recommending smuggling... ;)

The election of Angus King shows that Maine voters are not afraid to vote for an independent for governor.

And..... Lob-STAHS! :D

But you might wanna check on the registered voter %'s you have for NH - The latest #'s are 37%R, 27%D, and 36% Independent.

Keep up the good work!

JM
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craft_6

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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (20 so far)
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2003, 09:41:06 am »

Another advantage for Maine:

It is more evenly balanced between Democrats and Republicans.  This is often portrayed as a negative by those pushing heavily-Republican states, but a third-party movement would have more real power when both sides are afraid of losing votes.

If a state is 70-30 Rep/Dem, a pro-liberty vote of 10% has little significance.  If the state is closer to 50-50, any 10% block has enormous power.
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Kelton Baker

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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (20 so far)
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2003, 10:18:15 am »

Another advantage for Maine:

It is more evenly balanced between Democrats and Republicans.  This is often portrayed as a negative by those pushing heavily-Republican states, but a third-party movement would have more real power when both sides are afraid of losing votes.

If a state is 70-30 Rep/Dem, a pro-liberty vote of 10% has little significance.  If the state is closer to 50-50, any 10% block has enormous power.
I can't see the logic behind this strategy.  
If you have two parties that are 50-50, they tend to work at the margins of each other. Look at the current situation we have right now the United States: you couldn't have got much closer than 50-50 in the 2000 presidential election, and while the libertarian party and the green party can make claim that they got more votes than certain differences, the reality is that more people have developed the 'wasted vote syndrome' while the two parties at the national level keep looking more and more like each other.

So, in effect the third parties are still marginalized from any real power under our current election system, because each party looks to the immensely larger pools of potential voters rather than those garnering small single-digit percentages.

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craft_6

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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (20 so far)
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2003, 10:26:37 am »

I can't see the logic behind this strategy.  
If you have two parties that are 50-50, they tend to work at the margins of each other.

The Greens and the Libertarians have little power in the nation overall because both are insignificant in numbers and financial backing.  An FSP pro-liberty third party in the Free State would not be.

An effective pro-liberty third party in the Free State would potentially be able to form winning coalitions with fiscally conservative Republicans on economic issues, and with socially liberal Democrats on personal issues, if the Republicans and Democrats are evenly balanced.

If conservative Republicans dominate the state, the prospects of a socially progressive pro-liberty third party achieving any progress in non-economic areas are slight.
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Kelton Baker

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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (20 so far)
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2003, 11:46:29 am »

I can't see the logic behind this strategy.  
If you have two parties that are 50-50, they tend to work at the margins of each other.

The Greens and the Libertarians have little power in the nation overall because both are insignificant in numbers and financial backing.  An FSP pro-liberty third party in the Free State would not be.

An effective pro-liberty third party in the Free State would potentially be able to form winning coalitions with fiscally conservative Republicans on economic issues, and with socially liberal Democrats on personal issues, if the Republicans and Democrats are evenly balanced.

If conservative Republicans dominate the state, the prospects of a socially progressive pro-liberty third party achieving any progress in non-economic areas are slight.
Ah! I see no, thank you.  In an area where we could actually compete, like in the FSP plan, we could elbow ourselves into the fray, makes sense now, thank you...

Not to get too far off-topic discussing Maine, but I still prefer Idaho because the Democrats hold so very little power there, we could actually begin a de facto second party in Idaho!  The socially progressive Democrats would likely all join us together with the disgruntled Republicans who could vote for us without worry over with the 'wasted vote syndrome'.  The remaining statist and authoritarian Democrats could find a home with the Republicans.  How would that be?  A two party-state with an FSP annointed party vs the Republicans while the Democrats struggle to retain their ballot status.  It seems just as plausible as the 50-50 strategy to me!

So, in effect, I like the happy idea of not thinking of ourselves as a third-party spoiler but instead as a take-over dominant 2nd party, much like how the Republicans came to prominence over the Whigs('twas a sad day indeed :'( )  But this time it will be the pseudo-libertarian Republican party vs our libertarian/constitutional-FSP party.
 -Of course, it looks like Idaho is the only state really poised that way strategically right now and it is a big state with no term limits, so maybe I am dreaming here.  Though Idaho does have other advantages in the caucus system , but I'll reserve that talk for another thread.


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« Last Edit: July 02, 2003, 11:48:23 am by exitus... »
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Kelton Baker

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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (20 so far)
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2003, 01:05:17 pm »

Another advantage for Maine:

It is more evenly balanced between Democrats and Republicans.  This is often portrayed as a negative by those pushing heavily-Republican states, but a third-party movement would have more real power when both sides are afraid of losing votes.

If a state is 70-30 Rep/Dem, a pro-liberty vote of 10% has little significance.  If the state is closer to 50-50, any 10% block has enormous power.

Since this certainly seems to be one of the factors proposed as positive for Maine, the eastern states in general, but more so in Maine since Maine is seen in every way to be very much in a 50-50 split for Democrat/Republican in all major elections, I'll hammer on this one again...

I agree with you, craft_6,  that when a vote approximates a 50/50 split, the third party has a tremendous leverage in effecting change...

but I strongly disagree that a third party is going to muscle its way into power in the face of this kind of even split, the best it can hope for is to continue to be an influence, kind of like the socialist party was on the existing two major parties today (very successful, as we all know).  As to gaining the reigns of real power hands-on, highly unlikely.  Sorry to pick on you, craft_6, but you were the one that first taught me this idea that I espouse! see here:


In Massachusetts, 45% voted for Carla Howell's initiative to end the state income tax, but only 1% voted for her, because the R-D race was so close.  The sad part is that the Republican candidate had proposed a variety of new taxes, and wasn't serious about making tough budget cuts at all.
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ZuG

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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (26 so far)
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2003, 03:39:04 am »

This is interesting. While it doesn't make me think that Maine is a better choice than less populous states, it has made me move it from the bottom of the pack to the upper-middle. It may be a good compromise state for the FSP.
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Mainer

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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (26 so far)
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2003, 07:23:40 am »

As I recently toured the State of Maine's midcoast region between
Portland (my home) and Camden/Rockport, a moment of clarity happened
to me.  I realized that any person from any other state can find a
town very similar to his previous home state.  Farmers, fishermen,
bankers, craftsmen, computer programmers, wood workers, skiers,
boaters, campers, writers, athletes, and retirees will all find a
niche among people who love company and welcome all to experience
the treasures of Maine known by all too few.  Next weekend, I'll be
camping in Bar Harbor and venturing even farther into "DownEast"
Maine.  For those who've not been to Maine or only for an occasional
vacation, beware of discounting the potential of this state as our
First Free State.  I encourage you to look beyond the statistics,
lists, polls, articles, and other people's opinions.  Read the AAA
book about Maine, and study it on a map.  Read about the places and
you will discover a whole lifetime of weekend excursions within 4
hours from the center of the state.  

It only seems fitting to me that the FSP chooses a place with a deep
and long history, previously inhabited by similar Patriots 200 years
ago.  I will reserve my reasons for being against New Hampshire for
another venue, however I strongly urge voters to consider where they
would rather live.  New Hampshire offers a stronger political
climate today than does Maine, however where will they be in 5 or 10
years when we establish our population?  One can speculate, but not
be certain, therefore some consideration of where one would prefer
to live must be included in a well-thoughtout vote.  New Hampshire
offers several advantages, but to exist, we must not only move
there, but also stay there.  I could not begin to count the numbers
of NH license plates this weekend in Maine, but I could begin to
speculate as to how few Maine residents spent their long weekend in
New Hampshire.  

In conclusion, I want to wish a Happy (belated) 4th of July to one
and all among these fora, and to share my sincere passion for the
State of Maine.
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robmayn

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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (26 so far)
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2003, 11:24:57 am »

"The state of Maine holds the distinction of being the most independent state, politically, in the nation.  It is the ONLY state in the country to have given Ross Perot second place in 1992.  And it also holds the distinction of having had independent governors twice in the last two decades... Angus King, being one of them [until term limited in 2002]."

Hi Joe,

Kudos for a job well done.  Having grown up in Vermont and whitnessed what so-called "Independents" have done to this state, I am not convinced that a large number of independents automatically translates to a more libertarian culture.  It certainly has not been the case here in Vermont.  Other than this small nit picking detail, I tip my hat to your well researched presentation.

In the long run, I would like to see a tri-state FSP of Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire.  
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Dave Mincin

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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (26 so far)
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2003, 12:37:02 pm »

Maine Lobster!  Had my first, 2 actually at the Getaway!  Thanks Amanda! :)
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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (26 so far)
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2003, 04:04:51 pm »

Wow, I hadn't realized the weather was so mild.
It sounds so beautiful.
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lloydbob1

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Re:Reasons to vote for Maine (26 so far)
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2003, 05:19:33 pm »

Hell, Joe,
Just clipping off Portland, maybe Gorham and Bangor would go a long way towards making ME the best state.
Lloyd ;D
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