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Author Topic: New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen  (Read 11802 times)

RacecaR

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New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« on: July 01, 2003, 12:05:57 am »

I have noticed recently a blitz from a vocal minority of New Hampshire supporters.  I think they should start thinking and acting a big more realistically.  New Hampshire has as much chance of being chosen as the free state as Andy Dick does beating up Mike Tyson.

The Free State will be undoubtedly a western state.  The best thing those pushing for New Hampshire can do is vote for the western state they like the most or be stuck in one they don't like as much.  

New Hampshire is more expensive, has a higher population, less land, etc.  and these are only a few of the bigger reasons it won't be chosen.  I don't think these people are convincing anyone but themselves that New Hampshire has a prayer of being chosen.  I'd even choose Alaska before New Hampshire.

If I bet each one of the New Hampshire supporters $100 and I gave them 10-1 odds against New Hampshire being chosen, I would be a wealthy man when the election results came back.  I could move to the Free State and buy a house, or a business.

Hey, I don't hate New Hampshire, or have anything particular against it, but realistically it just won't be chosen.  And no amount of your filling up the board in an attempt to sway the opinions of FSP members will change that so just let it go.  I'm happy you're involved in the FSP but you'll have to get used to the idea you'll be moving out west.  So as the saying goes, "Go West young man"

I will personally welcome you with open arms to the Free State.  Hopefully I'll be able to scrape enough money together to open the Porcupine Pub quickly so we can all meet and share a few pints together.  Which ever western state is chosen, I'm sure we'll all enjoy being around people who actually value freedom, the location won't matter that much.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2003, 12:36:07 am by RacecaR »
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Karl

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2003, 12:11:31 am »

Give us a break, Racecar (Radar).  You have no credibility on this forum.  You should spend your time trying to convince people of your view instead of posting baseless juvenilia.
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StevenN

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2003, 12:11:32 am »

Weelllll........ If you can provide me with some hard numbers and not anecdotal evidence, I might believe you. So far, no real polls or anything close to an idea of how the FSP populace thinks. The best gauge we have is opinion on the boards, which I think puts NH and WY at the top.
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RacecaR

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2003, 12:18:59 am »

Quote
Give us a break, Racecar (Radar).  You have no credibility on this forum.  

And you do?  LOL  :D

I wouldn't try comparing yourself to me in credibility, education, or support of small government.  You might embarass yourself further.

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You should spend your time trying to convince people of your view instead of posting baseless juvenilia

You should spend more time reading Libertarian books, running for office, promoting the LP & FSP, and doing other things that actually matter instead of making weak insults towards me.  

From what I've seen on this board Wyoming is way ahead of any other state but the other western states are far ahead of New Hampshire.   It's only been in the last week or two that a very few people are pushing for it and it won't work.

As I said, I'm sure New Hampshire is an ok place, but it has no chance of winning.  
« Last Edit: July 01, 2003, 12:19:38 am by RacecaR »
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jenlee

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2003, 12:24:18 am »

I don't know if NH will win or not.

But which ever state does win, we all will still be winners, the lot of us.

Also, got any facts?  Most people needs/requires facts/data not a lot of empty ....  whatevers.

Quote
Give us a break, Racecar (Radar).  You have no credibility on this forum.  

And you do?  LOL  :D

I wouldn't try comparing yourself to me in credibility, education, or support of small government.  You might embarass yourself further.

Quote
You should spend your time trying to convince people of your view instead of posting baseless juvenilia

You should spend more time reading Libertarian books, running for office, promoting the LP & FSP, and doing other things that actually matter instead of making weak insults towards me.  

From what I've seen on this board Wyoming is way ahead of any other state but the other western states are far ahead of New Hampshire.   It's only been in the last week or two that a very few people are pushing for it and it won't work.

As I said, I'm sure New Hampshire is an ok place, but it has no chance of winning.  
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Choices. One, plenty of room to expand. Two, freeze em and stack em like cords of wood, thaw em out to vote and then refreeze em. Choices.

RacecaR

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2003, 12:34:59 am »

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I don't know if NH will win or not.

But which ever state does win, we all will still be winners, the lot of us.

Agreed.

Quote
Also, got any facts?  Most people needs/requires facts/data not a lot of empty ....  whatevers.

Facts about a future event?  Unless you've got a time machine I don't see that happening.  But I can give speculation as everyone else here has done.  And given the amount I've seen other states mentioned I would be willing to put money up that says New Hampshire won't be chosen.  

I won't though because even though I'm honest and value the sanctity of a bet (I grew up in Las Vegas and was a craps dealer) I'm sure others wouldn't pay it if they lost.  

So I guess I'll have to settle for a gentlemans (or persons) bet of honor.  If I lose I will shave my head bald and admit I was horribly wrong in public.  I will even take photos of my hair being shaved off and a pic with my bald head painted with the word "Loser" painted in red on the top of my head and post them on this site.  If you lose you must do the same whether you're a man or a woman.  (although for women we might be able to do something similar with both naked breasts if you  can't shave your head).  

The best is as follows.  If any state other than New Hampshire is chosen, I win the bet.  In fact, scratch that...I'll go further.  If any of the eastern states (Maine, New Hampshire, Deleware, or Vermont) is chosen as the free state I lose.  If it's a western state (Alaska, Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, or Wyoming) you lose.  

Who will take this bet?  Are any of you brave enough?  I doubt it.  
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LibertyLover

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2003, 12:45:38 am »

The Free State will be undoubtedly a western state.  The best thing those pushing for New Hampshire can do is vote for the western state they like the most or be stuck in one they don't like as much.  

Even though I think Wyoming is the best choice, New Hampshire is my second choice, and I think it is a good choice. Those "pushing for" New Hampshire should do the same thing that everyone else should do--rank all the states in the order they believe each state merits as a chance for freedom in our lifetime.
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jgmaynard

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2003, 09:10:13 am »

That's exactly what we are doing, LL.... We had a vote at the Escape to NH and out of a desire for fairness, we took ourselves out of the running for the puropses of our test vote, and only voted on the western states (WY,MT,ID,AK). The vote was pretty close, there is quite a difference in opinion among NH supporters about which western state is the 2nd best choice... BTW, Idaho won by one vote in the final round of the IRV.
Actually, JenLee has a LOT of credibility. She is thoughtful, open-minded, and is willing to reason and explore.
Even the most ardent western supporters realize that NH is a front-runner... And most of them realize it would be a great choice.

JM

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ZionCurtain

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2003, 10:33:03 am »

New Hampshire has as much chance of being chosen as the free state as Andy Dick does beating up Mike Tyson.

If you think New Hampshire's chances of being chosen are so slim, why do you expend so much time making postings about NH?
I think it is an effort to educated the ignorant. At least that was my guess.
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RacecaR

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2003, 12:50:35 pm »

Quote
I think it is an effort to educated the ignorant. At least that was my guess.

You're partially correct.  I am just getting tired of seeing all this NH stuff lately when there is really no cause for it because the chances of NH being selected as the free state are slim to none.  

I'm sure whichever state is chosen will be great, but I wouldn't count on the free state being on the East Coast.  That just doesn't seem realistic or likely considering that the FSP is mostly made up from people in the west, the western states have more land and it's cheaper, the western states have a lower population, etc.

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jgmaynard

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New Hampshire Should Be Chosen
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2003, 12:51:01 pm »

There's lots of information out there about all the states... As Tim said during his speech at the Escape to New Hampshire, this is probably going to be the most informed vote in history.
The word ignorant can be misconstrued.... How were you characterizing those who disagree with your choices?

JM
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jgmaynard

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New Hampshire Should Be Chosen
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2003, 01:01:34 pm »

Quote
I think it is an effort to educated the ignorant. At least that was my guess.
You're partially correct.  I am just getting tired of seeing all this NH stuff lately when there is really no cause for it because the chances of NH being selected as the free state are slim to none.  

Have you read much media about the Project? They nearly always mention NH and WY as the front-runners. Though even that is unfair, I believe MT and ID both stand a decent chance of being selected.

Quote
I'm sure whichever state is chosen will be great, but I wouldn't count on the free state being on the East Coast.  That just doesn't seem realistic or likely considering that the FSP is mostly made up from people in the west,

Have you looked at the last membership #s by state? At last count, NH had 100 more members than WY, and almost double the ratio of members/population of the #2 state. I'd be willing to bet you the distance is even greater now.

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the western states have more land and it's cheaper,

Yes, that is an advantage of the west I recognize, and accept. Though there is inexpensive land and houses in NH away from the cities and seacoast. Doug found land up north for only $300/acre.

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the western states have a lower population, etc.

Depends on the state. Vermont has about the same population as WY, and ID about the same as NH.

If you think NH is not going to be one of the top states selected, you're in for a suprise.

JM
« Last Edit: July 01, 2003, 01:02:35 pm by jgmaynard »
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benny

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2003, 01:34:35 pm »

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I'm sure whichever state is chosen will be great, but I wouldn't count on the free state being on the East Coast.  That just doesn't seem realistic or likely considering that the FSP is mostly made up from people in the west, the western states have more land and it's cheaper, the western states have a lower population, etc.

Wait a minute...the FSP is mostly made up of people in the West?  Hey, I don't know what they smoke out West, but I want some...

I crunched the numbers from the May 9 State by State stats.  (My calculator work may be slightly off, but not significantly.)  Using the Mighty Mississippi as the East/West divider, I calculated:
West: 1459
East: 1841

Listen, New Hampshire is a serious contender, and always has been from the start.  The difference in tone is key, however.  NH proponents argue passionately for their preference, but frequently add that they will go anywhere (or anywhere but AK) for the FSP.  How many Westerners would do the same?  What if Maine or Deleware miraculously win?  Will you be loading up the Ryder truck the next day?

I think it is instead the people out West who are getting a tad desperate.  Please keep in mind there is minimal value in tearing down another state in Condorcet voting.  Why should we vote for your state?  Or, almost as important, why should NH or WY diehards put your state second?  (For the record, my vote will be 1.NH, 2.WY,...  and I was swayed towards these states by...wait for it...their proponents on these boards.)

benny
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ZionCurtain

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2003, 01:47:13 pm »

Quote
I'm sure whichever state is chosen will be great, but I wouldn't count on the free state being on the East Coast.  That just doesn't seem realistic or likely considering that the FSP is mostly made up from people in the west, the western states have more land and it's cheaper, the western states have a lower population, etc.

Wait a minute...the FSP is mostly made up of people in the West?  Hey, I don't know what they smoke out West, but I want some...

I crunched the numbers from the May 9 State by State stats.  (My calculator work may be slightly off, but not significantly.)  Using the Mighty Mississippi as the East/West divider, I calculated:
West: 1459
East: 1841

Listen, New Hampshire is a serious contender, and always has been from the start.  The difference in tone is key, however.  NH proponents argue passionately for their preference, but frequently add that they will go anywhere (or anywhere but AK) for the FSP.  How many Westerners would do the same?  What if Maine or Deleware miraculously win?  Will you be loading up the Ryder truck the next day?

I think it is instead the people out West who are getting a tad desperate.  Please keep in mind there is minimal value in tearing down another state in Condorcet voting.  Why should we vote for your state?  Or, almost as important, why should NH or WY diehards put your state second?  (For the record, my vote will be 1.NH, 2.WY,...  and I was swayed towards these states by...wait for it...their proponents on these boards.)

benny
What do you say of NH having more people opting out of every state but NH. Seems to me that there is a concerted campaign of deception going on.
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Penfist

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Re:New Hampshire Won't Be Chosen
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2003, 01:51:29 pm »

Quote
I'm sure whichever state is chosen will be great, but I wouldn't count on the free state being on the East Coast.  That just doesn't seem realistic or likely considering that the FSP is mostly made up from people in the west, the western states have more land and it's cheaper, the western states have a lower population, etc.

Wait a minute...the FSP is mostly made up of people in the West?  Hey, I don't know what they smoke out West, but I want some...

I crunched the numbers from the May 9 State by State stats.  (My calculator work may be slightly off, but not significantly.)  Using the Mighty Mississippi as the East/West divider, I calculated:
West: 1459
East: 1841

Listen, New Hampshire is a serious contender, and always has been from the start.  The difference in tone is key, however.  NH proponents argue passionately for their preference, but frequently add that they will go anywhere (or anywhere but AK) for the FSP.  How many Westerners would do the same?  What if Maine or Deleware miraculously win?  Will you be loading up the Ryder truck the next day?

I think it is instead the people out West who are getting a tad desperate.  Please keep in mind there is minimal value in tearing down another state in Condorcet voting.  Why should we vote for your state?  Or, almost as important, why should NH or WY diehards put your state second?  (For the record, my vote will be 1.NH, 2.WY,...  and I was swayed towards these states by...wait for it...their proponents on these boards.)

benny

Keep your voice in the mix. We'll need reasonable people around as the verbal diarrhea spews forth in ever greater proportions. I'll be wading through with my rubber suit on, hoping that when I get to the other side, I still see the Free State in the distance.
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