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Author Topic: Idaho +  (Read 50456 times)

phylinidaho

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Idaho +
« on: August 10, 2002, 12:48:52 pm »

I have been rethinking my position on what state. I know it is still premature, but since everyone is discussing the issue, I have been giving it much thought. I had favored Alaska and Montana because they are closer to our goal than any of the other states. Now I say lets choose Idaho.

My reason for saying this is that Idaho is surrounded by pioneer-spirited states: Montana, Yyoming, Nevada, Eastern Oregon & Eastern Washington. Adjoining Montana & Wyoming are North & South Dakota. I believe we could make the free state project work in any of these states, so why not choose the one that would be most comfortable to live in - while enjoying support from all of the others.

Idaho has a perfect climate. In the Treasure, we have mild winters for you Southerners and mild summers for you New Englanders. In addition we have jobs in the electronic industry and a low cost of living.

The local LP is growing rapidly and is mostly favorable to FSP, but reluctant to leave the ideal conditions in Idaho.
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brianidaho

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2002, 12:24:59 am »

First post here, but glad to see another Idahoian.  Hard to beat this state for a libertarian climate.  
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cdbern_99

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2002, 02:22:37 am »

Ahhh but Idaho doesn't have the abundance of natural resources Alaska has.  It doesn't have the ultra clean air, nor do the Idahoans receive a PermaFund checks each year.  Those checks average between $1500 - $1800 per family member, regardless of age.  Curtesy of the pipeline.

Alaskans (despite their voting trends) are notoriously independent.  If FSP promised to do away with Govenment intrusion (at whatever the level), they would be warmly received.   Although as with other States, the proof is in the pudding.  Many go to Alaska to get away from the restrictions found in the lower 48.  When folks try to change their lifestyle by duplicating other cities found in the lower 48, they are greeted with distain.  Curiously though, new businesses are welcomed.

If push came to shove, it would be awfully hard to starve an Alaskan.  Fishing and hunting is plentiful.  The Matanuska Valley is a great agriculture region.  There's more timber for houses than you can imagine and Alaska doesn't depend on anyone for electricity or water.  The weather isn't as bad as you've been led to believe.

Just something to think about.
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marciesmom

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2002, 07:45:03 am »

Alaska's great, as long as land on/near the coastline holds out. . . .'cause once you go inland you get permafrost and darned cold.  Then there are the isolation and oil issues covered in other posts.  
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fubar

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2002, 09:34:49 pm »

Isn't Coeur d'Alene, Idaho the HQ for the largest white supremist organization in the USA?  People have a right to be pig headed idiots, I'm just not sure I want to associate with them.

What's the story phylinidaho?  Would we be surrounded by white supremists if we went to Idaho?
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Elizabeth

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2002, 10:48:38 pm »

Idaho town fighting against racist image

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By NICHOLAS K. GERANIOS, Associated Press, 3/31/2000

COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho -- Embarrassed by the sight of neo-Nazis parading through town during tourist season, city leaders have decided they too, can use the First Amendment to their advantage.
They are hiring a human rights coordinator with public relations experience whose job will include publicizing all the good things people are doing in Coeur d'Alene.
It's the latest tactic in a battle that has seen locals first try to ignore the white supremacist group Aryan Nations and then stage counter-demonstrations. The result was media coverage showing pictures of swastika-wearing extremists marching down main street.
"Good deeds and positive activities never garner as much attention as the remarks of a crazy who doesn't represent anybody," said Jonathan Coe of the Coeur d'Alene Area Chamber of Commerce.
Mayor Steve Judy will choose the coordinator, who will work with the news media, advertising agencies and religious groups to develop programs that promote respect for others. The goal is to focus media attention on positive activities, rather than hate marches.
The coordinator will set up a Web site, organize public meetings and answer queries from the media about hate groups.
Money for the post of coordinator was donated by Carr Center for Human Rights Policy at Harvard University. Founder Greg Carr is an Idaho native.
Richard Butler, leader of the Aryan Nations, ridiculed the notion of an Aryan-buster. "For white people to have to hire somebody like that because other people want to remain white is interesting," he said.
The Idaho Panhandle is a region of beautiful lakes and forested mountains that draws thousands of tourists and retirees. The elegant Coeur d'Alene Resort on the city's lakefront has 18 floors of rooms to fill, at rates of up to $2,500 a night.
In Kootenai County, tourism in 1999 accounted fro 5,800 jobs paying 66 million in wages. With the region's timber and mining industries suffering, tourism is a major reason the population of the county leaped from 69,000 in 1990 to 98,000 in 1997. Many of the newcomers are moving into $500,000 homes springing up all over the area.
At the same time, Idaho has gained a reputation as a hate-group stronghold. A recent report by the Northwest Coalition for Human Dignity Identified 11 white supremacist groups in Idaho, 10 of them in the Panhandle.
Among hem is the Hitler-loving Aryan Nations, which moved to the area in the 1970s and declared it was creating a white homeland.
Civic leaders fear that marches by the Aryan Nations in 1998 and 1999 are scaring away tourists and business opportunities.
A 1998 parade attracted about 90 Aryan Nations supporters and 1,000 counter-demonstrators. Last summer, about 80 white supremacists and 200 opponents scuffled in a park. A week later, after winning a permit on First Amendment grounds with backing from the ACLU, a few Aryan Nations supporters marched while thousands of protesters screamed at them.
At the state level, Gov. Dirk Kempthorne has proposed spending up to $100,000 to change Idaho's image as a haven for racists. "The idea that this soil is now used as a verbal battleground for hatred and to display swastikas is not Idaho," he said at a rally in Coeur d'Alene last year.
In Coeur d'Alene, some merchants were enthusiastic about the idea of countering bad publicity with good. "We have a really bad reputation," said Cathy Shortridge, owner of several stores in the Coeur d'Alene Resort Shopping Plaza. "Everywhere we go, people mention, 'You live up there with the Aryan Nations.'"
But others wondered whether fighting back against the white supremacists might be counterproductive. "Ignore them and eventually they will go away," said Sandy Jirovski, manager of a recreational vehicle park.
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varrin

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2002, 02:57:53 pm »

I feel that Idaho is the best of the 10 states when it comes to being a desirable place to move to.  The population issue could be a factor though.

And, Alaska *is* as bad as it's made out to be.  I've been there plenty...  Though I haven't spent a lot of time in Boise, what I've seen of Idaho seems leagues ahead of Alaska, and better than anyplace else currently under consideration.

How'd the LP do in Idaho this election cycle?

V-

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JT

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2002, 04:42:25 pm »

U.S. Senate:
Dem. - 132,845
Lib. - 9,350
Rep.- 265,845

U.S. Rep. District 1
Dem.- 80,269
Lib.- 5,129
Rep.- 120,742

U.S. Rep. District 2
Dem.- 57,594
Lib.- 5,507
Rep.- 135,389

State Controller
Dem.- 129,345 (33%)
Lib.- 18,655 (5%)
Rep.- 241,870 (62%)

Superintendent of Public Instruction
Dem.- 211,291 (52%)
Lib.- 10,163 (3%)
Rep.- 183,625 (45%)


Proposition 1 Tribal Gaming
Yes - 232,561
No - 169,680

Proposition 2 Referendum on Repeal Term Limits
Yes - 202,706
No - 200,881


« Last Edit: November 07, 2002, 04:44:03 pm by JT »
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Kelton

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2002, 01:52:31 pm »

 
Some observations on Southern Idaho:
I posted this at a time when this thread was very slow,  Just some impressions of visits to Idaho, for and against, relating to  some conversations I had while visiting with people in Southeastern Idaho and my experience at a grocery store one Thanksgiving.   Also, some positive experiences I had listening to the radio and observing that there is a surprising amount of freedom- oriented talk shows on there.  Realizing that people who actually live there have presented better stuff, I'll not post all my silly little anecdotes.  
« Last Edit: November 26, 2002, 12:24:22 am by exitus »
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

Kelton

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2002, 03:15:08 pm »

Not only Idaho, but just about everywhere Libertarians face this same dilema, I think.  Idaho just happens to have a huge number of people, perhaps even ten thousand adults in Southeastern Idaho alone, who have been strongly awakened to the cause of true liberty and as a result,  despise the nanny- state and all prohibitions on their freedoms.
   

It may surprise you, but I am a devout God-fearing individual. But I usually find myself more comfortable among atheist libertarians than statist religionists.

I wish that I knew some easy way to convince more religious conservatives that the moral choice is to end prohibitions, not advocate them.  I'm all for a theocracy, but I'll wait until God himself comes to rule among men, until then, while men continue to rule themselves, I'll take a reublican and constitutional government of deliberated laws that respects the self-evident rights of individuals.
   
The even more difficult thing is using the word liberty.  Even the Greens and other socialists speak of liberty for all.  In the ironic words of Abraham Lincoln: "We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing."  
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

Kelton

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2002, 03:33:34 pm »

To answer your question, Solitar, I think there is a vast majority of people in Southeastern Idaho who overall resent the nanny-state, but then hold to their own favorite particular liberty restriction.

I refer you to an even better source, perhaps, the Idaho Libertarian Discussion Group.
http://www.lp-idaho.org/forums.htm
« Last Edit: November 26, 2002, 12:28:26 am by exitus »
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

freedomroad

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2002, 04:08:43 pm »

It may surprise you, but I am a devout God-fearing individual. But I usually find myself more comfortable among atheist libertarians than statist religionists.

To those of you who are new to libertarianism:

Most libertarians are religious.  Most of those libertarians are Christian.  Also, very few libertarians are atheists.

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Kelton

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2002, 05:23:08 pm »

You're right, FreedomRoad!
The first step we need to take in convincing more religious conservatives to join us is  for us to shed their labels of us and convince them that we hold the truly moral cause.

More about Idaho, I recall an important Supreme court case that I studied in my business law class-- (we studied a lot of federal law since my professor was a former federal judge) that really demonstrates the spirit of typical business owners in Southeastern Idaho:
Marshall v. Barlow's, Inc., 436 US 307 (1978)
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=436&invol=307
"On the morning of September 11, 1975, an OSHA inspector entered the customer service area of Barlow's, Inc., an electrical and plumbing installation business located in Pocatello, Idaho. The president and general manager, Ferrol G. "Bill" Barlow, was on hand; and the OSHA inspector, after showing his credentials, 2 informed Mr. Barlow that he wished to conduct a search of the working areas of the business. Mr. Barlow inquired whether any complaint had been received about his company. The inspector answered no, but that Barlow's, Inc., had simply turned up in the agency's selection process. The inspector again asked to enter the nonpublic area of the business; Mr. Barlow's response was to inquire whether the inspector had a search warrant. The inspector had none. Thereupon, Mr. Barlow refused the inspector admission to the employee area of his business. He said he was relying on his rights as guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution."

And, from the reading in my law textbook, he stated, "I go by a higher law," and pointed to a copy of the Bill of Rights on the wall.        
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

Penfist

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2002, 05:26:23 pm »

It may surprise you, but I am a devout God-fearing individual. But I usually find myself more comfortable among atheist libertarians than statist religionists.

To those of you who are new to libertarianism:

Most libertarians are religious.  Most of those libertarians are Christian.  Also, very few libertarians are atheists.



I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'd appreciate if you could back up statements like that with some verifiable data.

Are most libertarians religious? Are most of them Christian? Who says so and what research did they do to back it up?
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Kelton

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Re:Idaho +
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2002, 11:53:46 pm »

As you may see, I have been busily thinking about Idaho today, here is another important gem about Idaho:

"Idaho ranks #1 overall [in home ownership, the percentage of population voting, births to unwed mothers, single parent families, and the percentage of population receiving welfare payments} and also has the lowest percentage of welfare recipients."
http://www.wnpt.net/tndollars/compare_society.htm

I guess that my anecdotes about Southeastern Idaho and its government welfare status were an anomolly compared to statistical data, or the area from Blackfoot to Idaho Falls that I have observed is where a huge portion of all welfare recipients for the state reside.  
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address
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