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Author Topic: Homeschooling  (Read 12356 times)

TedApelt

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Homeschooling
« on: December 24, 2002, 10:55:49 am »

Where do the homeschooling numbers come from on the spreadsheet?
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2002, 03:05:54 pm »

Map from:
http://www.atr.org/maps/15.html

Map created from data at:
http://www.hslda.org
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freedomroad

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2003, 08:06:33 pm »

I did some research on this topic.  It seems that Jason might be wrong.  Here is the info that I would in a FSP Forum search.

 2   FSP Discussion / Which State? / Re:Ranking states by "best" schools, spending, etc.  on: January 17, 2003, 10:35:14 am  
Started by Joe, aka, Solitar, Message by exitus.
Another purpose of evaluating a state's laws is to help identify a culture of liberty in that state.  After all, we are not 20,000 saviors coming to change the laws, as activists we are merely the catalyst to propel political movements forward.  It also spells out how much work we have to accomplish.  But the reality is that many people have some basic requirements for a starting point they are willing to work from, most notably employment opportunities and gun laws.

Regarding homeschooling laws, the Home School Legal Defense Association has a different take on their assesment of homeschooling laws than does the American for Tax Reform:

http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp
On this link, they also specify what the legal requirements of each state are.
 
 
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freedomroad

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2003, 08:30:47 pm »

Here are the laws for a few of the leading states according to the HSLDA.  I am only comparing the states that are lightly regulated when it comes to Homeschooling.

According to the laws, of the five best states for homeschoolers: AK, WY, MT, DE, and ID

the order is:
1. Alaska
2. Idaho
3. Wyoming
4. Montana
5. Delaware (school from 5-16)

Others:
6. South Dakota
7. New Hampshire (school from 6-16)
8. Maine (Maine is not bad if you also teach 2 kids that ARE NOT YOURS)
9. Vermont
10. North Dakota (Basicly, homeschooling is very hard to do)


This is yet another factor where the western states seem to beat both the mid-western and the eastern states.

Alaska: http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp?State=AK
I will not list the laws for Alaska.  Alaska has 5 options for homeschool.  One of the options has ZERO regulations but the other 4 have lots of regulation.  It is possible that there is pressure in Alaska for more regulation from the very strong teacher unions and that the first, unregulated option will be closed.  However, for now, Alaska is the best there is.

Wyoming Legal Home Schooling Options:  1  
 Must school between the ages of 7 and 16.

 Option: 1
 
Legal Option:
 Establish and operate a home school
 
Attendance:
 175 days per year
 
Subjects:
 A "basic academic educational program" that provides a "sequentially progressive curriculum of fundamental instruction in reading, writing, math, civics, history, literature, and science"
 
Qualifications:
 None
 
Notice:
 Annually submit to the local school board a curriculum showing that a "basic academic educational program" is being provided
 
Recordkeeping:
 None
 
Testing:
 None

Montana Legal Home Schooling Options:  1  
7-16 must be in some type of school

 Option: 1
 
Legal Option:
 Establish and operate a home school
 
Attendance:
 180 days per year, 4 hours per day for grades 1-3 and 6 hours per day for grades 4-12
 
Subjects:
 Same "basic instructional program" as the public schools
 
Qualifications:
 None
 
Notice:
 File annual notice of intent with the county superintendent
 
Recordkeeping:
 Maintain attendance and immunization records; must be available for inspection by county superintendent upon request
 
Testing:
 None

Delaware Legal Home Schooling Options:  1  2  
 5-16 must be in school

 Option: 1
 Option: 2
 
Legal Option:
 Establish and/or enroll in a home school association or organization
 Establish and operate a home school providing "regular and thorough instruction" to the satisfaction of the local superintendent and the state board of education
 
Attendance:
 180 days per year
 180 days per year
 
Subjects:
 Same as the public schools
 Same as the public schools
 
Qualifications:
 None
 None
 
Notice:
 Association or organization must register with the Department of Education; report enrollment, student ages, and attendance to Department of Education on or before July 31 each year; also submit annual statement of enrollment as of last school day in September in form prescribed by Department of Education
 Report enrollment, student ages, and attendance to Department of Education on or before July 31 each year; also submit annual statement of enrollment as of last school day in September in form prescribed by Department of Education
 
Recordkeeping:
 None
 None
 
Testing:
 None
 Administer a written examination as prescribed during the approval process

Idaho Legal Home Schooling Options:  1  
 7-16 in school

 Option: 1
 
Legal Option:
 Provide an alternate educational experience for the child that "is otherwise comparably instructed"
 
Attendance:
 Same as the public schools
 
Subjects:
 Same as the public schools
 
Qualifications:
 None
 
Notice:
 None
 
Recordkeeping:
 None
 
Testing:
 None
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freedomroad

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2003, 08:37:49 pm »

the order is:
1. Alaska
2. Idaho
3. Wyoming
4. Montana
5. Delaware (school from 5-16)

Others:
6. South Dakota
7. New Hampshire (school from 6-16)
8. Maine (Maine is not bad if you also teach 2 kids that ARE NOT YOURS)
9. Vermont
10. North Dakota (Basicly, homeschooling is very hard to do)
Hopefully, Jason will change the spreadsheet to reflect these numbers.
According to the way the spreadsheet works, that means the spreadsheet points should go like this:

AK 10, ID 9, WY 8, MT 7, DE 6, SD 5, NH 4, ME 3, VT 2, ND 1
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2003, 10:23:11 am »

The problem is that the HSLDA map doesn't gibe well with their descriptions.  My interpretation differs slightly from yours, perhaps just because it is rougher:

1. Alaska (10)
2. Idaho (9)
3. Wyoming, Montana (7)
5. Vermont, South Dakota, Delaware, New Hampshire (3)
9. Maine (2)
10. North Dakota (0)
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Zxcv

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2003, 09:31:00 am »

It's funny about bad homeschooling states. In those I bet the "noncompliant" population is high, and as far as I'm concerned, being a scofflaw in this area is a good thing. People need to exercise their "freedom muscles". Homeschoolers sure start to understand what freedom is about when they are in a state like this.  :)

As soon as one of you boil this down to numbers for all 10 states, I will change it in the big spreadsheet. Here are my preferences:

1) Testing - an annoyance, and homeschoolers sure like to complain about it. But usually the "passing" requirements are quite low (in Oregon you have to beat the 15th percentile, easy for most homeschoolers - almost none are remanded to school), and testing has the unintended consequence of promoting homeschooling and showing how lousy and unfair the govt. schools are. It also protects us against adverse legislation. So I would not downgrade a state much, if any, for testing, unless it was very frequent.

2) Reporting that you are homeschooling - no big deal, just an annoyance.

3) Reporting attendance - another annoyance, but a bigger one.

4) Conformance to a detailed curriculum - this is the big one, especially if the state mandates some way of actually checking you are conforming, such as submitting curriculum and requiring approval by local school boards, or recording progress for bureaucrats to monitor.

5) Home inspection - if any states have something like this, ugh, it is an even bigger factor.

6) Is there any tendency in the state, for noncompliant homeschoolers who get caught, to throw them on the tender mercies of the "Child Protection Services" (aka Child Kidnapping Services)? That would be an important indicator. Not sure how you'd dig this out, though.

Keith, keep up the good work on this.  ;)

I think this is one of those items we would find it relatively easy to fix, whatever state we end up in. Hell, homeschoolers are often up to it all by themselves, if their leaders are half-way decent.
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Robert H.

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2003, 04:43:04 am »

From what I'm told, most states won't bother you too much with home inspection or anything of that nature unless: 1) neighbors or relatives complain for some reason, or 2) you've got a lot of kids.

And, personally, I believe that if I found out that the state required me to "check in" with a designated teacher periodically, I'd be looking for a new state.  Checking your curriculum and/or methodologies against state approval basically undermines the majority of reasons why people homeschool in the first place; they object to the state's curriculum and/or methodologies.

rambler42

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2003, 08:01:00 am »

We ruled out the eastern seaboard states because of their homeschool laws. North and South Dakota would be reluctantly accepted, but I regretted not adding them to the opt out list when I signed up.  We live in Wisconsin which has very simple homeschool laws, and I know personally those who helped author it. They are lovers of freedom (as is a good percentage of Wisconsin, believe it or not), and I am hoping to not have to "redo" what they worked so hard to do in our state. My numbed one choice at this point is Idaho, based on its very friendly laws and access to the lower 48. Next, in order, for us, are Alaska, Montana, and Wyoming.
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Karl

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2003, 08:38:33 am »

We ruled out the eastern seaboard states because of their homeschool laws. North and South Dakota would be reluctantly accepted, but I regretted not adding them to the opt out list when I signed up.  We live in Wisconsin which has very simple homeschool laws, and I know personally those who helped author it. They are lovers of freedom (as is a good percentage of Wisconsin, believe it or not), and I am hoping to not have to "redo" what they worked so hard to do in our state. My numbed one choice at this point is Idaho, based on its very friendly laws and access to the lower 48. Next, in order, for us, are Alaska, Montana, and Wyoming.

One of NH Gov. Benson's recently stated goals was to work on increasing school choice.  I haven't seen specific proposals, but I can assume this includes improving the home schooling laws.  So, it appears to me to be "low hanging fruit."  If NH is chosen, early movers will have an opportunity to work with the Governor on this issue.  If these laws are brought to at least on par with Wisconsin's within the next couple sessions, I hope you would reconsider moving there.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2003, 10:20:30 am by Karl Beisel »
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kbarrett

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2003, 01:33:59 pm »

We ruled out the eastern seaboard states because of their homeschool laws. North and South Dakota would be reluctantly accepted, but I regretted not adding them to the opt out list when I signed up.  We live in Wisconsin which has very simple homeschool laws, and I know personally those who helped author it. They are lovers of freedom (as is a good percentage of Wisconsin, believe it or not), and I am hoping to not have to "redo" what they worked so hard to do in our state. My numbed one choice at this point is Idaho, based on its very friendly laws and access to the lower 48. Next, in order, for us, are Alaska, Montana, and Wyoming.

One of NH Gov. Benson's recently stated goals was to work on increasing school choice.  I haven't seen specific proposals, but I can assume this includes improving the home schooling laws.  So, it appears to me to be "low hanging fruit."  If NH is chosen, early movers will have an opportunity to work with the Governor on this issue.  If these laws are brought to at least on par with Wisconsin's within the next couple sessions, I hope you would reconsider moving there.

If AK is chosen, we won't have to get help from the governor to home school, or a permission note from a bureaucrat. It's kinda hard for any state to beat AK on this issue when it is the only one that allows a complete opt out.

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freedomroad

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2003, 01:03:52 am »


If AK is chosen, we won't have to get help from the governor to home school, or a permission note from a bureaucrat. It's kinda hard for any state to beat AK on this issue when it is the only one that allows a complete opt out.



Right, one of the options in Alaska is to do ANYTHING you want, including nothing.  No other state has that.  Of course, AK also has the lowest taxes in the nation (though one of the worst budget problems outside or CA and DC), the best guns laws (this is argueable because ID, WY, and VT also have very good laws), and legal marijuana (but the cops still arrest people).  Heck, parts of AK has speed limits but NO COPS (yet they want to lower the speed limits).  Alaska does not work like the rest of the country, not even close.

I would love to move to Alaska as I think I'll get rich there :)
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Doug R.

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2003, 02:31:55 am »

My wife and I have been homeschooling for 19 years, the last 11 in Alaska.  We have NEVER reported to anyone, NEVER filed anything with anyone, NEVER been questioned by anyone, NEVER been challenged by anyone.  We have never had to have a cirriculum approved or registered.  We have never tested our kids nor have we been asked or required to.  

God help anyone who tries to make us do any of the above.  
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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2003, 11:25:13 am »

Quote
We ruled out the eastern seaboard states because of their homeschool laws. North and South Dakota would be reluctantly accepted,

Why would you "reluctantly accept" a state with worse homeschooling laws than NH (ND), and a state with roughly equal laws (SD)?
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Kelton

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Re:Homeschooling
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2003, 04:35:03 pm »


I am one of the several individuals that argues that the homeschooling ranking on the FSP spreadsheet is not perfect.  One reason for this is that I believe that Idaho offers the best homeschooling environment among our candidate states, if not the entire country.

I know, I know, Idaho already takes 2nd place, why am I clamoring for top spot?  Few people really want to strain at legal complexities and argue infinitessimal differences, so I'm sure few people will read what I have to say here, but nonetheless, I feel it is a very important factor in estimating freedom culture and in my estimation, Idaho is the very best in this regard, here's why:

  • On practical grounds, there is no difference between Alaska and Idaho in terms of what a parent may do in establishing a homeschool.  No reporting, no requirements, no testing, no filing, nothing.
    --Idaho law simply states that parents must provide a curriculum similar to public education, and this is why the FSP ranking puts Idaho at just below Alaska.  Yet it must be noted that Idaho makes no effort to define how to measure this, and binds the hands of any government busy-body that has a problem with homeschooling: in Idaho, parents are free to ignore any request for info from a school district and officials are actually prohibited from ever speaking with a child over their curriculum!  Furthermore, like Alaska, the burden of proof rests entirely on the state to prove that parents are causing harm to their children by their chosen course of teaching methods.

  • Alaska only grants homeschooling freedom to parents IF "the child is being educated in the child's home by a parent or legal guardian," So it is not true that you can do "anything" you want in homeschooling in Alaska.
    By contrast, in Idaho, parents are legally free to take their children on field trips outside the homes, furthermore, parents are free to hire that retired professor across the street in exchange for piano lessons or start a neighborhood co-op homeschooling venture or whatever they like, the requirement does not rest solely on parents, only

  • While homeschooling is being attacked in both states, Idaho seems to be gaining the edge.  For one, the teachers unions are  comparatively far less powerful in Idaho than in Alaska.  Also homeschoolers in Idaho are well organized and politically active.  There are numerous homeschool discussion groups in Idaho and several parents admit that they moved to Idaho for the sole reason of taking advantage of the homeschooling laws there.

No sore spot against Alaska here, I just wish that more people would acknowledge how great the homeschooling situation in Idaho truly is, personally, I would have given them both a '10' on the spreadsheet, even before I became biased in favor of Idaho.  
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