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Author Topic: Wyoming Drug Policy  (Read 15080 times)

Racer X

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Wyoming Drug Policy
« on: December 17, 2002, 08:39:26 am »

Here's a somewhat disturbing article from a leftist site.  Note the first paragraph of the article and the later references to California.  I can't seem to link straight to the article, so look for the Wyoming feature on the right side of the page.

Wyoming Launches Most Comprehensive Anti-Drug Plan in U.S.

www.jointogether.org/sa

Then for a good laugh, check out the site's gun control section.

Edit:  After reviewing the more current data and reports, I now feel Wyoming is the best choice for the FSP.[/b]


Racer X
« Last Edit: April 21, 2003, 01:55:42 am by Racer X »
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Zxcv

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2002, 12:51:27 pm »

Whew! For a moment there, your lead-in made me think my favorite candidate state had gone off the deep end. Actually it's not such a bad deal:

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Key elements of the Wyoming plan include a statewide adult and juvenile drug-court system, investment in outpatient and residential treatment programs, incentives for establishing drug-free workplaces, and utilizing community coalitions to coordinating local efforts. Increased inspection of alcohol outlets to prevent sales to minors is funded, as is a social-marketing plan aimed at reducing public tolerance for underage drinking. DUI laws are toughened, as well.

The plan also requires adherence to treatment standards and certification, use of science-based interventions, data reporting, and outcome measurements.
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Look at the positive side of this.

1) Treating alcohol as part of the problem, a more realistic view.
2) Preferring treatment over incarceration.

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But the genesis of the legislation can be traced back to 1997, when an advisory panel was formed to tackle the then-new problem of methamphetamine use and production in the state. "Methamphetamine hit hard and ruggedly in Wyoming," noted Embry, with drug-related arrests increasing tenfold between 1990 and 2000....

Faced with an overwhelming problem, Wyoming's Department of Criminal Investigation director, Tom Pagel, began canvassing the state, telling citizen's groups that there was no way his officers could arrest their way out of the drug problem.
-------------------------------

I think the worst thing we could do, if Wyoming is our state, would be to attack this program. At worst it is a rathole for taxpayer dollars, just like most government is. At best, it might actually help some. We should let it play out and see where it goes, and try to make sure some massive self-perpetuating constituency doesn't develop over it. And fix any detail problems with it.

In a way, this is actually a blessing for FSP in Wyoming. It means we really can put the drug issue on the back burner, and work on other more pressing issues. They've done a favor for us!

There's no need to lie about our position. We can approach it like this: "Fundamentally, we still believe the state has no more right telling people what not to put in their bodies, than it has dictating any other facet of personal or economic life. The concept of freedom does not make such exceptions. But with this program in place, the worst features of the War on Drugs may be ameliorated, and we will monitor the program, rather than working for substantive change, for the forseeable future."
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PTboy

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2002, 01:09:49 pm »

Is there a state that has NOT gone socialist? I think we all just need to get our 20K and move post haste to the first state we can get and GO for it. I've visited all 50 of the US *MANY* times, and have even lived in Alaska (Fairbanks and Anchorage) and there isn't a place I wouldn't go for the sake of Liberty. By the way, Alaska was awesome! Yes, during the winter it's cold (especially in Fairbanks 400 miles north of Anchorage) but it was beautiful both winter and summer. There's nothing like the Aurora Borealis and the people are wonderful. Anchorage is a big city type of atmosphere and no colder a climate on the mean than, say, Denver, Colorado!  And the beauty is indescribable. I'd move there, or anywhere else, in a heart beat to give liberty a chance. All we need to do is start it as soon as possible and it will spread to most of the other states.

PT Boy
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freedomroad

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Re: WY is the least socialist of all 10 states
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2002, 01:23:07 pm »

I think your subject to the thread is very misleading.  This program is a step in the right direction, IMHO.  It means WY is tired of nothing working and so the state is trying something new.  This helps show that WY is open to more practical alternatives.


From the article
Quote
"For years, legislators have grappled with how to deal with an increase in criminal sentences," said Geringer. "But what we haven't done is deal with the root cause."

"Treatment saves money, and we're tired of building prisons," added Rep. Doug Osborn, the Wyoming lawmaker who sponsored HB59. "Warehousing prisoners is part of a revolving-door policy."

Remarkably, the law commits Wyoming to spending about $50 for every state resident in support of addiction prevention, early intervention, and treatment. To fund the program, $50 million in tobacco money has been placed in a trust fund; interest on that fund, plus annual settlement payments going forward, have been set aside.
For years, legislators have grappled with how to deal with an increase in criminal sentences," said Geringer. "But what we haven't done is deal with the root cause."

This indicated that WY is one of those states (like CA) that does not want to arrest the entire population for drug problems.  WY wants to help with prevention and treatment.  I do not think WY is doing this the right way.  However, it is certainly makes more sense than throwing everyone in jail.  Also, that is alot of money to spend.  I am amazed that WY still has some tobacco money left.  I know TN (my state) spent all of its money to help fill up the budget gap (it did not work and 4 types of taxes were raised in TN.)  I think the people of WY should be proud that some of their tobacco money went to an actual program.  I was told that a lot of the money North Carolina got went to help the tobacco companies.  I do not know if it true but I would not put it past NC.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2002, 01:26:00 pm by FreedomRoad »
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Racer X

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2002, 08:57:51 pm »

I don't think the thread title was misleading.  I did pose the title as a question, not as a statement.  This is a clear left turn for Wyoming.  I'll admit, Wyoming isn't California yet, and like the previous poster said, all states seem to be moving towards socialism.  However, I was really shocked when I found the article.  This sounds like something that would come out of Oregon, not Wyoming.  I was looking for articles about jobs when I ran across the story.

I will certainly give them credit for admitting that incarceration is not a solution.  The money is coming from the tobacco settlement so they're not soaking the taxpayers-yet.  They are desperate and they are looking for solutions, but they are clearly looking left.  The tobacco money will eventually run out.  We will hear how wonderful the program is and how they just need a little more money.
Pretty soon it's, "Hello Taxes".  This does seem like a move towards Big Government-Tax and Spend.

The social message is a problem too.  You don't want to work?  You want to lease cheap government land?  You got hooked on drugs or won't raise your kids?
Don't worry.  Mother Wyoming will take care of you.  Mother Wyoming knows what's best.  BTW, so much for the mighty Wyoming LP.

I don't hate the idea of living in Wyoming.  I have family in Colorado, so I've been there.  Most of the state looks like the moon, but the Jackson-Yellowstone-Cody area is beautiful.  Unfortunately, everybody knows this so it's becoming an area of expensive trophy homes like Aspen.  I think Dick Cheney has a place near Jackson.

I just think Vermont is more do-able as far as creating change.  Low pop, slow growing pop, town meetings, good city-rural mix, low fed dependance, proximity to big East cities for recruitment & fundraising. inexpensive elections.  Vermont is the only state that truely recognizes the 2nd Amendment-and no damn hunter orange requirement ;D  A relatively small group has made an impact in Vermont.  We could have an impact there too.  Vermont socialists prove that small groups like the FSP can have an impact.  How socialist can they be?  They let everyone walk around with a gun. ;D  Re-think Vermont.




Racer X
 
« Last Edit: December 18, 2002, 02:27:02 pm by Racer X »
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Zxcv

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2002, 04:40:39 pm »

Hey, what you got against Oregon? They passed an initiative recently prohibiting regulatory takings! Done anything like that in Vermont? :)

We've got concealed carry (not Vermont carry, but it is lenient) and no damn hunter orange either. :)

Every state has it's problems. You have to look at the overall picture.

I'd rather deal with a state that is looking for solutions than one stuck with the imprisonment mentality. And that bit about tobacco money, come on! You are damning one state for the same fault that all 49 others share. I don't see how it's a move toward tax-and-spend any more than building prisons and police forces is.

Quote
You got hooked on drugs or won't raise your kids?
Don't worry.  Mother Wyoming will take care of you.
Are you suggesting Wyoming is worse with welfare than the other states are? I don't have the numbers at hand, but I recall Wyoming was at the low end of the spectrum for welfare in the research that has been done about it...
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redbeard

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2002, 07:30:49 pm »

I have a buddy who's a cop. He is required to teach in the DARE program. He tells me that he's seen more than one study that proves that DARE has had absolutley no impact on the rate of drug use or addiction. Government, including Wyoming's, will never learn. Having said that, I'm still voting for Wyoming. It just kicks ass.
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Racer X

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2002, 08:22:24 pm »

Nothing against Oregon, I was just thinking of "Progressive Portland" ;)  I didn't know Oregon didn't have the orange requirement.  I thought most the western states had it.  I'll have to read up on my orange laws. ;D

I don't really have a huge problem with drug treatment, it's good they're turning away from prisons.  It's the "Largest Plan in U.S." bit that scares me.  That seems to have come out of nowhere.  Actually, Wyoming has fairly mild Marijuana laws.  I had thought Vermont's laws would be the more mild of the two.  I wonder if that will change now.  Pot is not the drug they're having problems with, but will they paint all drugs with the same brush.  I'm not a pothead, but I think this countrys' MJ laws are insane.  Alcohol is the gateway drug, if such a thing exists.   According to the DEA, no one has died from pot, yet over a 100,000 a year die from alcohol.  The hypocrisy is insane.  Pot should be regulated like alcohol.  I'm not in the legalize everything camp, though.  The public just won't go for that.

As far as the tobacco money, all states are getting it, but like the article says, some states are using it to pay down debt.  Wyoming is starting this "Largest Drug Plan Ever" stuff.  We'll just have to see how it plays out.  We don't know the details yet, so who knows what it will cost.

Quote
Are you suggesting Wyoming is worse with welfare than the other states are? I don't have the numbers at hand, but I recall Wyoming was at the low end of the spectrum for welfare in the research that has been done about it...

I thought I would get the, "Oh, c'mon!" comment for the Mother Wyoming bit ;D  I was hamming it up a bit.  Wyoming does have less welfare than other states.  I meant to imply that the tide could be turning, possibly pretty fast.

Quote
I'm still voting for Wyoming. It just kicks ass.
;D ;D
BTW, I live around Chicago.  I'm not pushing my home state.  I'm also a newbie to guns and hunting.  Just didn't grow up around them.  The moronic VPC pushed me over the edge I guess. :o  They get a lot of TV time in Chicago.

Racer X

« Last Edit: December 18, 2002, 08:25:50 pm by Racer X »
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Zxcv

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2002, 04:23:54 pm »

Welcome to the club, Racer. You haven't lived until you've been out hunting!   :)
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mtPete

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2002, 01:33:02 am »

Wyoming, like MT, ND and SD, has a serious problem of Meth. From talking with folks though this problem seems less driven by local use but by demand from Denver, Chicago, Miniapolis, etc. They come up here thinking they can escape authorities. We also have problems in that they run drugs through our states when comming down from Canada.

Not to say there isn't local use, just that much of the crime is related to drug trafficing, not use.

Would someone explain this who hunter-orange thing to me. I just assumed that was the same in every state. Oh, and can you hunt deer with rifles in VT, or is it shotgun only?

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cathleeninsc

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2002, 12:21:53 pm »

I am not a hunter. My ex-husband was and I miss the meat in the freezer. But I want to know whether anyone really hunts deer with a shotgun!?! It makes sense with birds, but deer? Why?

Cathleen in SC
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Zxcv

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2002, 12:40:01 pm »

The hunter orange requirement is one of the few things the federal government has not yet seen fit to stick their nose into. ::)  It varies from "none" to (I think) almost 100% coverage, from state to state. I'd hate to hunt in a state with a high requirement; it's probably a law I'd simply ignore, and take my chances...

Here is an excellent site for finding all hunter orange and hunter education requirements in US and Canada:
http://www.ihea.com/infodb/

Apparently, in our candidate states, only Alaska, Idaho, Vermont and New Hampshire do not require the use of hunter orange garments. >:(  That is one thing we'll have to fix if we get into one of the other states.

I found a page that has links to all the state hunting/fishing agency pages:

http://hunting.about.com/library/weekly/blstate.htm

It ain't perfect; I had to use google to help get the VT home page, which is:

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/fw/fwhome/

The Vermont page did not have the hunting regulations, that I could see!  ::) But one of the pages had this comment from which one could infer they did have rifle seasons:

"List of businesses/people to whom big game may be reported:  Bear/Deer – rifle and muzzleloader/Turkey"

They apparently have some reporting requirements when you take an animal.

Delaware predictably has only shotguns for deer hunting - assuming you can find a place to hunt in the first place! They also even have a season for hunting bullfrogs. ::) Not a hunting paradise, clearly. That would pretty much eliminate Delaware for me. I can't imagine freedom without also having hunting.

Cathleen, you can hunt deer with shotgun, using buckshot or special slugs. It is typically short-range hunting, and some governments require it for more densly-populated areas because the slug and shot don't go far. I personally think it is a bit ridiculous, but it might save a couple of lives (I doubt that's been demonstrated, though).
« Last Edit: December 20, 2002, 12:44:33 pm by Zxcv »
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wolf_tracker

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2002, 01:44:16 pm »

I am not a hunter. My ex-husband was and I miss the meat in the freezer. But I want to know whether anyone really hunts deer with a shotgun!?! It makes sense with birds, but deer? Why?

Cathleen in SC

shotguns use slugs ... slugs do not travel as far ...
deer hunting in va, i believe can only be done using slugs
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2002, 09:57:55 am »

If we lived in DE, you could drive to PA or VA for good hunting. :)
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Zxcv

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Re:Has Wyoming Gone Socialist ??
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2002, 01:10:56 pm »

Yeah, and pay for an out-of-state license and tag, which often runs pretty steep.  :(

And especially in the east, you'd have to worry about the various state gun transportation laws for each state you drive through. Maryland is pretty barbarous in that respect these days; a simple misunderstanding and they hang you out to dry.  >:(
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