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Author Topic: Rejected by the LNC  (Read 6019 times)

JasonPSorens

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Rejected by the LNC
« on: December 17, 2002, 04:23:01 pm »

The resolution we presented to the Libertarian National Committee on Saturday was rejected by a vote of 6 in favor, 6 against, and 1 abstaining.  Here is the text of the resolution:

Whereas, the Free State Project (FSP) is obtaining the commitments of 20,000 libertarians to move to a single state of the U.S.;

Whereas, the strategy of concentrating libertarian activists and resources in one state substantially advances the likelihood of Libertarian victories;

Whereas, the establishment of a "free state" would demonstrate the benefits of liberty to the rest of the nation and the world;

Be it resolved, that the Libertarian National Committee encourages all Libertarian Party members to consider participating in the Free State Project, should their life circumstances and beliefs permit.

The reason we lost was that several people we counted on to vote in favor either were absent or abstained, and one person who promised to remain neutral voted against.  Without naming names, the opposition to the resolution consisted of 2 groups: the LP Old Guard who see the FSP as a threat to their cash flow & jobs, and "nerf libertarians" who wax ecstatic over 3% vote totals but cannot see the big picture.  To their credit, we also had some good supporters, especially from our candidate states.

I knew the national LP had lots of problems, but to see incontrovertible proof that they seek failure by any means necessary is disheartening.  I will probably be cancelling my LP membership.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2002, 04:30:56 pm by JasonPSorens »
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Zxcv

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2002, 04:30:57 pm »

Join the club, Jason! :(
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wolf_tracker

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2002, 05:09:41 pm »

Any group that keeps putting Harry Browne up as a
candidate ...  is sure to lose ...

Keep the faith Jason,  there are enuf ppl behind you that
who needs the LNC.

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adam3

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2002, 05:41:03 pm »

I disagree with the idea that we should give up on the Libertarian Party. We need a strong ally to make this project work. The LP has 100x the funds to spend on advertising as we do alone. Also keep in mind that we lost at the LNC by a single abstanee vote. Once we reach 5000 members and choose a state then we will recieve more credibility before the national audience, and I predict that the LNC would then vote yes. Once we reach 20,000 members I imagine there will be some talk of moving their HQ to our state, wether we envite them or not. I offer thsi advice, let us work with the LP to make our dreams of freedom a reality. THey believe in the same things we do, so why split our ranks and give more power to the ever expanding government by refusing to work together.
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SandyPrice

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2002, 05:45:18 pm »

I agree.  We don't need the LNC and in fact this may work to our benefit.  Most people consider us LP and that all we want to do is sit around and use drugs.  Maybe you should have your brochures rewritten and focus on calling for all Liberty minded Americans and leave the Libertarian stuff off.

by the way, I have been looking for porcupines in jewelry and can't find any.  I wear the Dollar sign around my neck and many people ask me about it.  I tell them I borrowed the symbol from Ayn Rand and it stands for Capitalism and Freedom.  So now I need a charm of a porcupine.  Seen any?  I will do a search after I get home on the 26th.

Jason we are better than the LP.  We don't need their endorsement.
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Kelly

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2002, 06:16:20 pm »

  This doesn't upset me at all.  My take on the vote is that the LNC was evenly divided on the idea that they have been ineffective, and that the FSP represents a true possibility to change this.  That IMO moves us out of the crackpot category.
  While it would be nice to have the support of the LNC, I think that most of us here are either not Libertarians or so disenchanted with the Libertarian Party that we are prepared to ditch them.  I think this can be used to our advantage we should not consider ourselves to be a Libertarian movement, and should make that clear as we go forward.  I think ultimately, the LNC will adopt a similar resolution as we gain steam, and when they do, it will be in order to gain status from us and not the other way around.
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wolf_tracker

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2002, 06:57:03 pm »

From what I see the LNC has no credibilty, that is why
they lose.

If you want to join the party, you have to pay.  To be a
rep or dem you just join.  Then they ask you for money,
but the L ... oh, to be one of us pay first.

All they want is money, and then dont put up candidates that
can win.

I saw one guy running for LtGov who said he would only
show up to vote on issues if there was a drug issue, otherwise he did not care and would not show up.  

That is really what we need, ppl like that.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2002, 07:02:36 pm by wolf_tracker »
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Jack Harrison

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2002, 08:12:42 pm »

I'm really new to this forum but I think this is not bad news, and I applaud you for reconsidering your party affiliation. In fact, it is the one single thing that bothers me about the FSP - that its seen as a Libertarian party thing. I think its not a good image nationally, even though that viewpoint of course, in my opinion, is flawed to begin with. I doubt highly that the national leadership of the Libertarian party really means freedom in the same way we mean freedom.

I would wish to see the FSP unencumbered by any party affiliation whatsoever. As I have grown from a child, my party affiliations have gone from the far left to so far right as to be completely unidentifiable. I truly am the disenfranchised voter.

I want to live free, and that includes free from any party affiliation. I so badly want to be left alone that I'm willing to leave you alone as well, and help the both of us get to the point where we are able to do just that. I really don't see that happening with a national party affiliation. Even though the Libertarian party seems to be the most closely aligned with the stated FSP goals, it still plays in that same old game that resulted in what we are trying to find freedom from.

I'll go wherever we decide to go. I'll help create, foster, and defend our freedom. Believe me, I'm in. I'm glad the vote was negative. I truly believe it is for the better, and I like the Libertarians nonetheless!
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Victor VI

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2002, 08:33:10 pm »

The resolution we presented to the Libertarian National Committee on Saturday was rejected by a vote of 6 in favor, 6 against, and 1 abstaining.  

So what? The LP is a political irrelevancy. If I had any confidence they were going to be of any use, I wouldn't be considering moving to a different state to find liberty. I'd stay home and wait for it to happen here.

Truthfully, I think you dodged a bullet. Who wants to be endorsed by perenial loser? You don't see Al Gore's picture on a Wheaties box, do you?  ;)
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2002, 08:50:35 pm »

Fair points, all.  The FSP has never been tied at all closely to the LP; I'm the only Board member who's a member of the LP, for example.  Our perceived independence may have alienated some LNC members, but on the other hand we are now freer to trumpet our independence, which should help us gain members.  

The advantage of getting the LNC endorsement would be favorable coverage in the LP News, read by over 20,000 people.  That would have helped the FSP.  But it's becoming increasingly clear that despite the eminent sensibility of our program, "the official libertarian movement" is going to continue to reject & dismiss us, & try to pretend that we don't exist.  It's frustrating to know that all of these people will be hopping on the bandwagon after we succeed through our own hard effort, but I suppose this is something most innovative efforts have to go through.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Kelton

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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2002, 12:29:34 pm »

I was not aware that the official leadership of the Free State Project was actively seeking the endorsement of any political party, so it surprised me to read that a resolution was submitted to the LP. . .

. . . obviously, the motivation for doing this was to promote awareness of the FSP.  At this moment, publicity is absolutely indispensable; we must make sure that liberty activists everywhere know about "A new strategy for liberty in our lifetimes."
 
"For those of us who already understand the debilitating effects of a government bent on reducing liberty rather than increasing it, the Free State Project aims at liberty in a single state,"
. . .  this is the reason why we joined this movement!
Though we come from the Republican Party, tired of its country-club first- liberty comes- second mentality; or though we come from among the former ranks of the Democrat Party, who now see through it's vote-buying schemes and demagoguery; of course, many of us largely come from the Libertarian party, frustrated by the party that continues to repeat methods that fail.; and from the many other parties and movements that desire liberty.

If we are rejected or ignored by those who already fail to deliver liberty, why should we waste a moment in sorrow?  We should press forward, never looking back, willing to obtain a vote of liberty with our feet, our voices and by those means at our disposal, EVEN IF IT MEANS WE REMAIN A GRASS-ROOTS MOVEMENT!  After we have demonstrated success, they will come around.

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Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door  -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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SandyPrice

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2002, 02:56:20 pm »

Let the FSP be an Independent party for now.  When I am question about my affiliation I now say Independent.  I was extremely active in the GOP for years and worked very hard for Senator Goldwater's presidential election and was a worker for Reagan.  

I've out grown the GOP and they have certainly not make a single movement to get me or my groups involved in their party.  It seems to me that the LP and the GOP share a lack of teamwork within their own parties.  Someone is always fumbling the ball and no one is ever around to pick it up but a stray Democrat.  

I have seen Trent Lott fumble badly and few GOP members have done little to help him.  I find him obnoxious but I have a different agenda than that of the GOP these days.

Welcome Jack Harrison, you sound like a wise man indeed.  My kids live near you in Bethesda and love it.  My son in law is a Goldwater and works in D.C.  My daughter does some work for the Senate and has her own business.

Can you honestly want to leave that glorious weather to move possibly to the west?  I get emails every morning whining about the sun not shining on my lovely kids.

It's sunny here in the desert but very chilly.  Won't be grand when we can all meet for a lovely BBQ and a beer someday?

 
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Zxcv

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2002, 03:05:32 pm »

Quote
Once we reach 5000 members and choose a state then we will recieve more credibility before the national audience, and I predict that the LNC would then vote yes.
Adam3, you miss the point.

If the LNC had any sense, any forward thinking individuals, anyone truly committed to liberty (as in, wanting to discover and encourage all possible routes to it), they would have glommed onto the FSP the instant it emerged from Jason's brain. :)

They are ossified. Just another money-sucking interest group with all the vigor sapped from them.

I too believe we dodged a bullet.

I think we can and still should attempt some creative arrangements with the LP in the state we choose; at least some of them have their heads screwed on right. But let's just forget the LNC.

Maybe that's even a selling point for us: "No board members belong to the LP!" (after Jason quits)     When you have a lot of lemons, make lemonade!   ;D
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2002, 03:24:34 pm »

If the LNC had any sense, any forward thinking individuals, anyone truly committed to liberty (as in, wanting to discover and encourage all possible routes to it), they would have glommed onto the FSP the instant it emerged from Jason's brain. :)

To be fair to them, there were 6 people who voted in favor of us, all of them apparently committed to the idea of the FSP.  It's just shocking that 6 or 7, depending on how you count it, would reject such an eminently sensible idea, when they'd be the ones who'd benefit most from its success.

I'm also talking with one of the people who voted against, and he seems to have been confused about what the resolution implied, & now says we should bring another one to them.

In other words, there may be hope for some of them yet.  But in the meantime, they need to get their house in order & think hard about the direction of the party.  Until then, I'm not going to be supporting them myself, though I'll continue to give support to my state party and to those good LP candidates that are out there.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Jack Harrison

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Re:Rejected by the LNC
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2002, 05:50:06 pm »

Welcome Jack Harrison, you sound like a wise man indeed.  My kids live near you in Bethesda and love it.  My son in law is a Goldwater and works in D.C.  My daughter does some work for the Senate and has her own business.

Can you honestly want to leave that glorious weather to move possibly to the west?  I get emails every morning whining about the sun not shining on my lovely kids.

It's sunny here in the desert but very chilly.  Won't be grand when we can all meet for a lovely BBQ and a beer someday?

Thanks for the nice welcome. A wise man? That might be the first time anyone has ever said such a thing about me. Does this mean I'm growing old? Or perhaps simply that my eyes have been opened? No matter, thank you for the compliment. I hope that one day, in person, I may be able to live up to it.

I've learned a few things about political parties. While I realize that everyone probably thinks they have grown up in a unique time in history, my timeline was one of a childhood mired in Democratic Congresses, occasionally led by a Republican president. At least then there was actually a whiff of a difference between the two, and shortly after beginning to think on my own I started to move to the right. As a younger man in my early 20's, I had a single desire - to be a Republican Congressman. Then they swept the House and with Newt in charge I was beaming with opportunity, only to see it dashed by more of the same, more of the same, more of the same. I no longer wanted to be a congressman, nor a Republican, for if that is what they are, I did not fit in. What did they reduce? What did they eliminate? What did they help? Empty promises. I didn't think my Party was capable of such things. So I moved right again, simply to not be a Republican, but I never really fit into the Libertarian mold. I made a dramatic and sudden change in my politics. I suddenly sought not just less government, but rather a Constitutional government. Nothing more. Just enforce the Bill of Rights and I'd be happy. But who is to do such a thing? Not the LP. I now just want to be left alone, and to help all others who wish the same in our efforts to live in such a place.

I'm now 37, married and as happy as I'm going to be in this kind of existence - and thats not good enough. I wake up angry at the news, and I go to bed the same way. I'm still registered with the LP but it hardly matters. I don't wish to be categorized.

I'm trying to learn new skills as I highly doubt a guy with my kind of IT experience can find a job in a small, lightly populated state where we are all likely to shake hands and break bread. I don't care how hard it is, I need to be free.
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