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Author Topic: Great reply to the 'socialization' issue  (Read 39069 times)

smartguy

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2004, 02:25:43 am »

it is entertaining to see that no one addressed the real point I was making.  That is *Let the kids be kids*.  Instead, all replies were as expected.  Parents who would prefer to micromanage, overprotect, shelter, and deprive their children of the fun, experience, and real world education that public schools provide.  
Yes, homeschooled children are eligible to participate in these extra-curriculars, but let's face it, less than 10% actually do.  It's these experiences and lessons-learned that are some of the most valuable items taken from schooling.  Home schooled kids, again, get none of it.
They don't learn how to handle friendship, trust, broken friendship and trusts, young romance, favoritism....the list is endless.  These are all important lessons learned that aren't necessarily in a curriculum.  They're also just part of growing up, being a kid.  
Instead, homeschooled children learn that mom and dad love them and are glad that they're home setting the table or mowing the lawn or washing dishes rather than "wasting their time" with friends or extra-curricular activities.
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SteveA

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2004, 06:18:50 am »

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it is entertaining to see that no one addressed the real point I was making.  That is *Let the kids be kids*.  Instead, all replies were as expected.  Parents who would prefer to micromanage, overprotect, shelter, and deprive their children of the fun, experience, and real world education that public schools provide.  

I must admit I don't see how sending children to a schoolroom for 6 hours a day lets "kids be kids".  I a child is an only child and they don't regularly other children outside the home then this might be more of an issue but I'm sure most children have friends, cousins, relatives, church groups or other people to interact with.

Kids don't really have a wide variety of experiences in school.  Elementary schools use a single classroom and most the time the children are just passively sitting at a desk listening to the teacher and not interacting in a social environment.  Likely a lot of why homeschooled children do well later is because they experience more social interaction when they aren't just one of 30 children with a single adult who doesn't even know them very well.  Some parents would teach better than others or provide more interaction with their children but it's quite easy to imagine children actually learn better social skills in an environment with more feedback and individual attention.  No, a homeschooled child won't have as much experience about working with 29 other kids their age but then again a child in a public school doesn't gain the experiences a homeschooled child does.  I'd guess most parents that choose to homeschool their children are willing to invest energy in it and it's not that hard to even have "fieldtrips" to a museum, library or zoo etc.  Maybe learning how to deal with a school bully or play team sports are beneficial experiences but I think having most children come out from a cookie cutter shaped public education isn't very beneficial to our nation because it creates fewer original points of view and doesn't allow children the flexibility to learn things they are most interested in.  What a child enjoys learning something they can excel very rapidly, whereas public schools don't provide much flexibility in that respect.  I know my most valuable skills came from reading 25 cent used books from a thift store when I was a kid, and a father who was also fascinated with technology.  Neither of those school provided and in public schools there was little of anything to learn that I hadn't already learned on my own.  If I had spent more time in public schools I would have learned less ... most of what I learned was outside school.  Your mileage may vary though but I think the most important thing for children is finding things they enjoy learning and schools don't work that way.  It's curriculumn and if you excel in some areas but not others, you'll possibly get stuck repeating a year instead of moving ahead in areas that you may do well in.

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They don't learn how to handle friendship, trust, broken friendship and trusts, young romance, favoritism....the list is endless.

I'd disagree again.  If a family lived on a farm and rarely visited anyone a child wouldn't gain as much of these experiences outside the home but in most any urban setting these are all inevitable.  Yes, children learn more when there's a variety of novel experiences but that's entirely possible homeschooling too.  In fact, children could easily get a much wider range of experiences being homeschooled if their parents regularly take them out to see new things.  It depends a lot on the parents.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2004, 06:28:11 am by SteveA »
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2004, 08:04:43 am »

Yes, homeschooled children are eligible to participate in these extra-curriculars, but let's face it, less than 10% actually do.

Whew, I'm glad someone knows the real statistics here.  ::) I'm sure that comes straight from a published study, right?

 
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They don't learn how to handle friendship, trust, broken friendship and trusts, young romance, favoritism....the list is endless.  These are all important lessons learned that aren't necessarily in a curriculum.  They're also just part of growing up, being a kid.  

I'm beginning to suspect you're a public school teacher or someone else with a vested interest in spreading ignorance.  My cousins were homeschooled all the way through high school, and they had more friends and activities going on than I ever did (I attended a private high school).  Many of these friends were in the same homeschooling association; many others were in the same church; some were simply neighborhood kids.

You're flat-out wrong.
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jeanius

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2004, 11:33:27 am »

I do smell a troll but ...

First of all there different approaches to homeschooling.  Some are strictly classical with something like three to four hours of seat time with math, history, grammar, etc.  Some are more relaxed or child-led where a rich learning environment is provided and the child explores that at his/her pace.  

Secondly, there are different approaches to parenting.  Some are very strict with education time and serious chore time with some play time thrown in.  Others have education time, reasonable chore time and play time.  I think your objections are more with the parenting issues.  Even a schooled kid can be required to come home and mow the lawn and do twenty other tasks before dinner and homework.  :)

I am a homeschooling parent.  I have an eclectic style.  We use classical materials and do about two hours of seat time sometimes broken up during the day.  Outside that my kids have reading and other assignments that they are expected to complete.  My kids have chores they must do every day.  But even with that my kids have *several* hours of play time.  My daughter has Girl Scouts and dance class.  My son has Boy Scouts, karate and Little League when it's in season.  Piano lessons too.  We meet with other homeschooling families once a week for social and play time.  We have at least one other play date a week with other non-homeschooled friends.

Homeschooling is a great way to deal with the age issues you raise.  In fact, age is not the issue but ability.  My daughter was reading and in kindergarten (at a private school) at four.  The public schools would not have let her start at that age.  But she *was* ready.  Homeschooling allows me the flexibility of providing the content they are ready for based on their readiness not something as arbitrary as their age.  

Learning social skills from a wide variety of ages is considerably better.  The old "of course I want my three year old to learn table manners from other three year olds" saying holds.  Yuk.

Jean
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thewaka

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2004, 01:46:12 pm »

Geist asks why age segregation doesn't start out a 1 month...[...]This makes no sense.  

I find it interesting that you do not understand an argument ad absurdum ("An argument whereby one seeks to prove one’s position by pointing out the absurdity or foolishness of an opponent’s position. Also, an argument carried to such lengths that it becomes silly or ridiculous. From Latin, meaning “to absurdity.”").

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Thewaka points out that grouping children allows a 6 yr old to study a subject "if they wish".  That's the point and the problem with homeschooling....there is no structure.  It's not about what the child wishes.  There are fundamental, traditional educational progressions (think stagepoints) to learning.

Or so you think. Just because a HSed 6 y.o. is learning the periodic table doesn't mean he isn't learning other "age appropriate" things. There can be structure without knowing years in advance the exact date when the teaching of long division will begin. Also, can you tell us how long these "stagepoints" have been tradition and in what settings?

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Parents in favor of homeschooling were either picked on in school and are deathly afraid the same will happen to their children or they are simply bored at home and should find a hobby or a job.  

This statement is absurd. I suggest you learn how to do research, *do it*, then return with decent arguments. This might be a great deal more interesting then.

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Surely there are tons of opportunities for trouble in a public school, but I'm sure we all agree that good parenting is the best defense against this type of problem.

And I believe choosing HSing *is* good parenting for dealing with these problems.

Diana
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mvpel

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2004, 11:44:51 am »

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No, a homeschooled child won't have as much experience about working with 29 other kids their age...

And as we all know, dealing with 29 other people who were all born in the same year we were is something that will serve us well as we move into our professional lives, right?
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caroline

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2004, 12:33:12 am »

I have never heard of any stories of home-schooled youngsters being "behind" in any way, so I think the arguments against it are simply designed to prolong the discussion. I chose to be home-schooled for 2 consecutive years in middle school, and my schedule was busier than it has been at any other time in my life so far. It gave me the perspectives and courage to do a lot of things that many of my mainstream school friends wouldn't have dreamed of, and all one has to do is look at the article by John Taylor Gatto to be reminded of the value of home-schooling.
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Kelton

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2004, 02:27:30 am »




I will believe that children should learn in
classes of 20 the same age when mothers start
whelping litters about that size. School is for
fish; we are a higher species.

                                   --Lehi Sellers (homeschooling activist)
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CoalitionNH

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2004, 02:01:22 pm »

I taught for 35 years in a public school and I would recommend homeschooling for many reasons, one of the most important being the 'socialization' issue.

Why subject your kids to the abuses of freedom that go on in the public schools, many of which are due to the system succumbing to political correctness and lack of academic freedom for teachers?

In general I have noticed that most homeschooled kids are more well-rounded intellectually and have not been 'deprived' of anything.

It's all about academic freedom which you do not get in the public schools. This was a subject discussed during one of our recent  radio shows...and something I am very passionate about.

-J

jenn_dorsett

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Re: Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2005, 07:50:23 pm »

I just want to say one thing... I WISH I had been home-schooled.  I wasted 12 years of my most academically curious years waiting for the rest of the class to finish their tests, and asking for the directions which were printed right there at the top of the paper..  After a while though, I just stopped listening.  I stopped wanting to learn, becuase all they "taught" me was crap...useless crap.  I feel roobed, and wish I still had the attention-span I had before I went into the public school system, maybe then I could play catch-up at 20 years of age.  Also, and I don't want to offend anyone "slower" (really, no offense) but they should not have to have a reading class in high school.  It's ridiculous.

thank you for listening
-Jenn
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Roycerson

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2005, 08:52:13 pm »

it is entertaining to see that no one addressed the real point I was making.  That is *Let the kids be kids*.  Instead, all replies were as expected.  Parents who would prefer to micromanage, overprotect, shelter, and deprive their children of the fun, experience, and real world education that public schools provide.  
Yes, homeschooled children are eligible to participate in these extra-curriculars, but let's face it, less than 10% actually do.  It's these experiences and lessons-learned that are some of the most valuable items taken from schooling.  Home schooled kids, again, get none of it.
They don't learn how to handle friendship, trust, broken friendship and trusts, young romance, favoritism....the list is endless.  These are all important lessons learned that aren't necessarily in a curriculum.  They're also just part of growing up, being a kid.  
Instead, homeschooled children learn that mom and dad love them and are glad that they're home setting the table or mowing the lawn or washing dishes rather than "wasting their time" with friends or extra-curricular activities.


Some home schooled kids might be fairly isolated.  I have 7 home schooled cousins who were VERY isolated.  However, most homeschooled kids I know are active in church youth groups and such programs.  How are you going to go and say something like "home schooled kids, again, get none of it."  It makes me think that your first sentence is probably equally as unreliable as your third.  I will dismiss most of what you say as unreliable until I see otherwise.
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sj

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Re: Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2007, 01:19:35 am »

Smartguy's post was completely ridiculous and showed us once again the amount of ignorance that abounds about homeschooling.


"It's about communication, it's about real life situations, it's about LIFE." --

And you define life as staring at a chalk board all day?  Home schooling is more like LIFE because WE as the students direct our own education instead of being force-fed.  WE as the students take responsibility for what we learn and how fast we learn it.  We interact with people of ALL AGES instead of one age group and learn about things hands on.  I learned about medical science by going to hospital equipment fairs with my friend's dad...I learned about everything HANDS ON.

Now, of course home schooling isn't for everyone, but I don't see a reason to denigrate it.

"Being locked down at home with no one to talk to but hobbit-like parents is not socialization." --

WE ARE NOT AT HOME all the time...we are experiencing things that public schooled kids couldn't do.  I visited foreign countries (during the school year), raised my own tadpoles, wrote a book, went to college at 16, and learned about life by LIVING life.  I'm afraid some of your beliefs are based on stereotypes.

"I'm sorry to burst bubbles here, but someone needs to speak up and make sense.  That's me.  I find this homeschooling issue in your forums one in which if you keep repeating your nonsense, soon you all believe it.  Wake up.  Let your kids experience life!" --

Could you give me your credentials that allow you to speak with authority on home schooling, please?  I'd love to see them.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 10:49:03 pm by sj »
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Crocuta

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Re: Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2007, 01:15:38 pm »

Check out the dates.  You're responding to a three year old troll.  And not your subtle, acting-like-they-belong troll.  More like a little kid who knocks over an anthill with a stick just to watch the poor creatures scurry about.   8)



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mrmoderate

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Re: Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2007, 05:03:03 pm »

Remember this about homeschooled children and public school children:
All generalizations are false!
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All generalizations are false!

sj

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Re: Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2007, 10:02:45 am »

Remember this about homeschooled children and public school children:
All generalizations are false!

Does that include the generalization you just made? ;D


There's a difference between facts and generalizations.  It is a fact that all public school children are grouped into their own age groups and made to sit in a chair through the whole day. 

Hey, that works for some people...those peopel should be free to send their children to those schools.  Doesn't work for everyone (we've talked about and agree on this point), but that choice should be made by the parent (we also agree on this).
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