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Author Topic: Great reply to the 'socialization' issue  (Read 38323 times)

antayla

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2004, 01:34:50 pm »

Let your kids experience life!

Um, I am experiencing life?
Uh oh, the homeschoolled underground speaks.  There must a be a conspiracy somewhere!  Quick, round up all the kids and put them in camps for 6 hours a day before the HU gets them!!!

Actually, the irony is that I DO fit that description of "child locked away from society" and I'm STILL ok.  I hope *quickly examines self for signs of anti-social behavior, maybe leprosy or something* ... I think...
« Last Edit: September 08, 2004, 01:38:11 pm by Robin Canaday (antayla) »
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thewaka

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2004, 07:54:28 pm »

Socialization isn't about being amongst children the same age.  It's about communication, it's about real life situations, it's about LIFE.

But state schooling *is* about being age segregated and *not* about those other things you said socialization is. You made our argument. :)

Diana
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smartguy

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2004, 03:19:33 am »

of course state schooling is about age segregation, as it should be.  Age segregation allows for 6 year old to be learning how to spell and 16 year olds learning the periodic table of elements.  Age segregation makes perfect sense.  It prevents younger kids from being overwhelmed and older kids from wasting time.  Furthermore, age grouping breeds competition.  This world, my friends, is about competition.  I find that many who support home schooling do so simply to do something different, rather than doing something better.  State schooling has structure and education needs structure.  You parents who think you can teach your kids what they need to know are sorely mistaken.  

Now go lock your kids in that room so they can get their work done.
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vtr

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2004, 05:54:19 am »

Would you care to trot out some national student performance statistics to prove your point?  I'm sure we would all be interested.
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thewaka

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2004, 09:26:13 am »

of course state schooling is about age segregation, as it should be.  Age segregation allows for 6 year old to be learning how to spell and 16 year olds learning the periodic table of elements.  Age segregation makes perfect sense.  It prevents younger kids from being overwhelmed and older kids from wasting time.

Do you think the one-room schoolhouses turned out poorly educated children compared to today?! Did you know there are still some today? And HSing allows 6 year olds to learn the periodic table should they so desire whereas your age segregation treats each one the same, slowing the learning for some, making it too difficult for others. I know; I was there; I hated school despite usually being the best student in my classes. I learned more and more interesting things on my own at the library.

Quote
Now go lock your kids in that room so they can get their work done.
You mean lock them in the state schools? No, thank you.

I think the arguments for state schooling for educational purposes laughable. Even my ILs who don't agree with HSing have *never* said it was b/c they didn't think I could teach my children well enough. It only has to do with "socialization" and "they will miss out on things." Most of those things are what DH and I want them to miss.

Diana
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Simon Jester

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2004, 11:06:42 pm »

Quote
Age segregation allows for 6 year old to be learning how to spell and 16 year olds learning the periodic table of elements.  Age segregation makes perfect sense.  It prevents younger kids from being overwhelmed and older kids from wasting time.

If age segregation is such a great thing, then why don't we start off at birth? Babies 1 mo. should only see babies 1 month, 1 year olds should only see other one year olds, two year olds should only see other two year olds, except for the nursery attendent/teacher who will of course instruct them so that they live up to where the developmental charts say they should be and for the few hours they get to spend with mom and dad during the mornings and evenings.
Why wait til they're five if it's so great?
Then none of them will ever have to be overwhelmed by the fact that a lot people can walk, talk, or even sit up and no older kid will have to waste time having anything to do with them.
No, sorry, but it doesn't make perfect since. What everyone gets in school is more like stunted socialization.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2004, 11:37:33 pm by Geist »
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SteveA

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2004, 12:36:00 am »

Quote
If age segregation is such a great thing, then why don't we start off at birth? Babies 1 mo. should only see babies 1 month, 1 year olds should only see other one year olds, two year olds should only see other two year olds, except for the nursery attendent/teacher who will of course instruct them so that they live up to where the developmental charts say they should be and for the few hours they get to spend with mom and dad during the mornings and evenings.

Interesting point.  I tended to hang out with adults more than children my age when I was young - could be I'm truly warped because of it but it's not obvious to me that it did any real damage.  Actually the "kids my own age" were the ones that got me into trouble and I'd say the adults gave me a good education and perspective on things.
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smartguy

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2004, 03:40:17 am »

Geist asks why age segregation doesn't start out a 1 month...That's ironic in the sense that those who are for homeschooling spew ideals and ethical arguments about the children being home with family but now Geist is suggesting the children be "schooled" beginning at 1 mo.  This makes no sense.  
Thewaka points out that grouping children allows a 6 yr old to study a subject "if they wish".  That's the point and the problem with homeschooling....there is no structure.  It's not about what the child wishes.  There are fundamental, traditional educational progressions (think stagepoints) to learning.  
Sure, a homeschooled child will make it in the world, I'm not suggesting they won't.  They will not have a structured learning environment though, which means they are missing pieces of the puzzle, which means they'll have trouble with problem solving.  
Homeschooled children miss out (here's the lack of socialization) on organized sports, clubs, band or chorus, honor societies, etc.  Why would a parent want to deprive their children of these opportunities.  That's the problem with homeschooling...it squashes a child's opportunities.  LET THE KIDS BE KIDS!  Parents in favor of homeschooling were either picked on in school and are deathly afraid the same will happen to their children or they are simply bored at home and should find a hobby or a job.  
How many times have we heard that high school was the best years of our lives?  I've heard the jingle several times.  Most of us work full time now.  In retrospect, high school probably was the best time of our life.  Again I ask, why deprive the children of this.  Surely there are tons of opportunities for trouble in a public school, but I'm sure we all agree that good parenting is the best defense against this type of problem.
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5thconcerto

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2004, 10:41:10 am »

A friend of mine Home-Schooled her two daughters once they got into high school, because of the 1) rampant drug culture, 2) cliques that placed enormous peer pressure on fellow members.
my 2 cents worth
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2004, 12:24:42 pm »

Homeschooled children miss out (here's the lack of socialization) on organized sports, clubs, band or chorus, honor societies, etc.  

No, they don't.  Have you heard of homeschooling associations?
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BlueLu

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2004, 12:37:48 pm »

Geist asks why age segregation doesn't start out a 1 month...That's ironic in the sense that those who are for homeschooling spew ideals and ethical arguments about the children being home with family but now Geist is suggesting the children be "schooled" beginning at 1 mo.  This makes no sense.  

She was following the logic of age-segregation to its absurd end, and trusting that the reader will agree that it is absurd.  I agree.
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"Hagrid"

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2004, 12:43:05 pm »

Homeschooled children miss out (here's the lack of socialization) on organized sports, clubs, band or chorus, honor societies, etc.  

No, they don't.  Have you heard of homeschooling associations?

Additionally, in New Hampshire, all children, regardless of homeschooling, have the right to use public school facilities (since taxes pay for them anyway)... according to at least one homeschooler there I've met, this means that so called 'socialization' issues are pretty much nulled out, if you want to take advantage of them...  

Interestingly, the child in question found when taking classes, they were far more advanced and mature and literate/competant than their age peers.... so perhaps the socialization issue is in fact reverse:
school "socialization" harms most children's development.

BlueLu

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2004, 12:43:10 pm »

Homeschooled children miss out (here's the lack of socialization) on organized sports, clubs, band or chorus, honor societies, etc.  

No, they don't.  Have you heard of homeschooling associations?

Also, there are many cases where the local school will let homeschooled children come just for band/glee club/athletics/etc.  Whether this is permitted usually has to do with whether the school can get additional funds for the time the child is on campus, which in many states and school districts, is possible.  
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jgmaynard

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2004, 03:16:34 pm »

Additionally, in New Hampshire, all children, regardless of homeschooling, have the right to use public school facilities (since taxes pay for them anyway)...

Yup. It's true. I know a homeschooled teen who takes just art classes at Keene High.

JM
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Simon Jester

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Re:Great reply to the 'socialization' issue
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2004, 05:57:42 pm »

Although BlueLu already cleared things up, I figured I'd step in and clear things up:
I meant to point out in my post the folly of saying that age segregation is best because if it were best, then it would be best for all ages and not just people between the ages of 4/5-18. It seems to be more the case that age segregation is the best...not for the children but for the teachers.

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Homeschooled children miss out (here's the lack of socialization) on organized sports, clubs, band or chorus, honor societies, etc.
I was in several of these organizations and, well, let's just say I doubt I would have missed them had I not been. Most of them have very little to do with actual socialization and more to do with resume padding,  the honor societies moreso than the others. In high school, you want to maximize the number of organizations you're in so it looks like you're a real "go-getter." Sorry to sound cynical, but that's the way it was at my school and everyone knew it. I'm sure some meant it but the most of us just wanted the honor chord and the resume line.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2004, 06:09:25 pm by Geist »
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It matters not how strait the gate,
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I am the master of my fate:
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