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Author Topic: More Essays on French Website  (Read 7958 times)

<Patrick>

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Mike Lorrey

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2004, 12:46:57 pm »

Your essay on US foreign policy is rooted on obsolescent states of affairs.

Specifically, in quoting Madison re being involved with european issues, you must take into context the fact that at the time he stated that, Europe was a months sea journey away. We also invaded Canada, and threatened to do so a second time over the Battle of Indian Stream.  Today, a flight to London from Boston takes less time than from Boston to LA (and never mind Hawaii and Alaska).  It is quite evident that we are all much closer to hand with any other point on the globe than our nation was to England at the time of our founding.

 You also ignore the Monroe Doctrine of the same era, which made it the policy of the US that europe shall not interefere in the affairs of the western hemisphere.  We gave support to individuals engaged in the liberation of spanish colonies, as American soldiers aided Simon Bolivar in the 1820's.

Your arguments apologizing for Japans attack on the US is similarly weak, selective, and naive, to suppose that leaving the Pacific to the Japanese would salve their thirst for conquest. Yamomoto may have known, from his time here in the US, that we were well armed, but he also warned his superiors against attacking the US at all, but they didn't listen to him then, either.

The Phillipino rebels General Pershing crushed were not true Philipina patriots but the same sort of muslim rebels the Phillipine government itself is currently battling in its southern islands. What was done there made the Phillipines a stable nation capable of westernization, rather than a nation at risk of being overrun by anti-liberty guerrilla muslim forces.
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Dave Mincin

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2004, 01:58:45 pm »

Patrick,

Your article was well thought out, and researched.  Thanks much for your time and effort!  Actually gave me a couple ideas for something I am working on, thanks for that too! :)

Dave
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<Patrick>

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2004, 04:18:03 pm »

Your essay on US foreign policy is rooted on obsolescent states of affairs.

Specifically, in quoting Madison re being involved with european issues, you must take into context the fact that at the time he stated that, Europe was a months sea journey away. We also invaded Canada, and threatened to do so a second time over the Battle of Indian Stream.  Today, a flight to London from Boston takes less time than from Boston to LA (and never mind Hawaii and Alaska).  It is quite evident that we are all much closer to hand with any other point on the globe than our nation was to England at the time of our founding.

 You also ignore the Monroe Doctrine of the same era, which made it the policy of the US that europe shall not interefere in the affairs of the western hemisphere.  We gave support to individuals engaged in the liberation of spanish colonies, as American soldiers aided Simon Bolivar in the 1820's.

Your arguments apologizing for Japans attack on the US is similarly weak, selective, and naive, to suppose that leaving the Pacific to the Japanese would salve their thirst for conquest. Yamomoto may have known, from his time here in the US, that we were well armed, but he also warned his superiors against attacking the US at all, but they didn't listen to him then, either.

The Phillipino rebels General Pershing crushed were not true Philipina patriots but the same sort of muslim rebels the Phillipine government itself is currently battling in its southern islands. What was done there made the Phillipines a stable nation capable of westernization, rather than a nation at risk of being overrun by anti-liberty guerrilla muslim forces.

Actually, I have known for quite some time that this particular essay of mine is deeply flawed. The irony is that by the time it finally got published, I already regarded it as wrong. I may write a new one to replace it.

I was very persuaded by this talk given by Leonard Peikoff at the Ford Hall Forum, and it has changed my view on US foreign policy quite a bit.
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"I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone’s right to one minute of my life.  Nor to any part of my energy.  Nor to any achievement of mine… I wished to come here and say that I am a man who does not exist for others."
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Michael Edelstein

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2004, 07:59:42 pm »

Patrick,

There's an additional perspective you could add to your future essays on US foreign intervention: an intrinsic aspect of the Govt making war involves violating the rights of its own innocent citizens via taxation and regulation, and violating the rights of the attacked nation's innocent citizens by injuring and murdering them.

Michael
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<Patrick>

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2004, 12:23:11 pm »

Quote
The Phillipino rebels General Pershing crushed were not true Philipina patriots but the same sort of muslim rebels the Phillipine government itself is currently battling in its southern islands. What was done there made the Phillipines a stable nation capable of westernization, rather than a nation at risk of being overrun by anti-liberty guerrilla muslim forces.

This is where your wrong.

My article was not about the muslims that fought against General Pershing. It was about the ENTIRE Philippine-American War. Don't attack a straw man. Most of the Filipinos who fought the US were catholics, not muslims. Manila was one of the first cities to be advanced on by US forces. The Filipinos who fought in this war were mostly NOT muslims.

This entire war DISGUSTS ME. US soldiers were ORDERED to massacare "men, women, and children." This was a war in which 100,000 civilians were killed by US soldiers. Don't make excuses for it.
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<Patrick>

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2004, 12:30:41 pm »

Patrick,

There's an additional perspective you could add to your future essays on US foreign intervention: an intrinsic aspect of the Govt making war involves violating the rights of its own innocent citizens via taxation and regulation, and violating the rights of the attacked nation's innocent citizens by injuring and murdering them.

Michael

This depends. If we are actually fighting a war in self-defense against those who started it, then we should use any means needed to defeat the enemy. If it is NOT a war in self-defense, but of aggression, then it's plain murder.

For example: I consider the Philippine-American War to be the mass murder of innocent civilians, but I don't think the same thing about the bombings of Germany and Japan in WWII.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2004, 12:38:05 pm by *Patrick* »
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nonluddite

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2004, 03:55:56 pm »

Patrick,

There's an additional perspective you could add to your future essays on US foreign intervention: an intrinsic aspect of the Govt making war involves violating the rights of its own innocent citizens via taxation and regulation, and violating the rights of the attacked nation's innocent citizens by injuring and murdering them.

Michael

This depends. If we are actually fighting a war in self-defense against those who started it, then we should use any means needed to defeat the enemy. If it is NOT a war in self-defense, but of aggression, then it's plain murder.

For example: I consider the Philippine-American War to be the mass murder of innocent civilians, but I don't think the same thing about the bombings of Germany and Japan in WWII.


Right, I had forgotten that Germany attacked Pearl Harbor!  ::)  

I think the worst the Germans did to us was sink US cargo ships headed exclusively to the UK while we were supposedly "neutral".  But after we joined the war, you could say that both sides were justified in fighting for "self-defense"!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2004, 03:56:24 pm by nonluddite »
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<Patrick>

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2004, 07:56:50 pm »

Patrick,

There's an additional perspective you could add to your future essays on US foreign intervention: an intrinsic aspect of the Govt making war involves violating the rights of its own innocent citizens via taxation and regulation, and violating the rights of the attacked nation's innocent citizens by injuring and murdering them.

Michael

This depends. If we are actually fighting a war in self-defense against those who started it, then we should use any means needed to defeat the enemy. If it is NOT a war in self-defense, but of aggression, then it's plain murder.

For example: I consider the Philippine-American War to be the mass murder of innocent civilians, but I don't think the same thing about the bombings of Germany and Japan in WWII.


Right, I had forgotten that Germany attacked Pearl Harbor!  ::)  

I think the worst the Germans did to us was sink US cargo ships headed exclusively to the UK while we were supposedly "neutral".  But after we joined the war, you could say that both sides were justified in fighting for "self-defense"!

Germany delcared war on the United States first. Were we supposed to sit there and do nothing? Give me a break!

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"I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone’s right to one minute of my life.  Nor to any part of my energy.  Nor to any achievement of mine… I wished to come here and say that I am a man who does not exist for others."
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nonluddite

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2004, 09:15:37 pm »

Patrick,

There's an additional perspective you could add to your future essays on US foreign intervention: an intrinsic aspect of the Govt making war involves violating the rights of its own innocent citizens via taxation and regulation, and violating the rights of the attacked nation's innocent citizens by injuring and murdering them.

Michael

This depends. If we are actually fighting a war in self-defense against those who started it, then we should use any means needed to defeat the enemy. If it is NOT a war in self-defense, but of aggression, then it's plain murder.

For example: I consider the Philippine-American War to be the mass murder of innocent civilians, but I don't think the same thing about the bombings of Germany and Japan in WWII.


Right, I had forgotten that Germany attacked Pearl Harbor!  ::)  

I think the worst the Germans did to us was sink US cargo ships headed exclusively to the UK while we were supposedly "neutral".  But after we joined the war, you could say that both sides were justified in fighting for "self-defense"!

Germany delcared war on the United States first. Were we supposed to sit there and do nothing? Give me a break!

Germany couldn't cross the Channel let alone the Atlantic!  Besides, Al Qaida declared war on us and we didn't do anything! (Doh!)  

BTW, I really do think that we should have gone to war with Germany, and MUCH earlier, if only to clean up the mess we made by getting into WWI.  (Sorry, I *so* like to play Devil's Advocate! ;))
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<Patrick>

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2004, 10:40:00 pm »

Quote
BTW, I really do think that we should have gone to war with Germany, and MUCH earlier, if only to clean up the mess we made by getting into WWI.  (Sorry, I *so* like to play Devil's Advocate! )

That's good.
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"I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone’s right to one minute of my life.  Nor to any part of my energy.  Nor to any achievement of mine… I wished to come here and say that I am a man who does not exist for others."
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Tracy Saboe

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2004, 11:59:05 pm »

Patrick,

There's an additional perspective you could add to your future essays on US foreign intervention: an intrinsic aspect of the Govt making war involves violating the rights of its own innocent citizens via taxation and regulation, and violating the rights of the attacked nation's innocent citizens by injuring and murdering them.

Michael

This depends. If we are actually fighting a war in self-defense against those who started it, then we should use any means needed to defeat the enemy. If it is NOT a war in self-defense, but of aggression, then it's plain murder.

For example: I consider the Philippine-American War to be the mass murder of innocent civilians, but I don't think the same thing about the bombings of Germany and Japan in WWII.


Right, I had forgotten that Germany attacked Pearl Harbor!  ::)  

I think the worst the Germans did to us was sink US cargo ships headed exclusively to the UK while we were supposedly "neutral".  But after we joined the war, you could say that both sides were justified in fighting for "self-defense"!

Not to mention that Rosevelt contrived the whole thing.

Even liberals and conservatives who worship Rosevelt admit this. Only they make his out as a "great statesmen" who needed to provoke Japan into attacking us and killing American's for the greater good of convincing American's to go to war.

Tracy
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Michael Edelstein

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2004, 12:01:10 pm »

Patrick,

You wrote:
"If we are actually fighting a war in self-defense against those who started it, then we should use any means needed to defeat the enemy."

I believe it's always wrong to violate individual rights.
Are you saying in certain circumstances it's right to violate individual rights?  

Best, Michael
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<Patrick>

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2004, 01:36:03 pm »

Patrick,

You wrote:
"If we are actually fighting a war in self-defense against those who started it, then we should use any means needed to defeat the enemy."

I believe it's always wrong to violate individual rights.
Are you saying in certain circumstances it's right to violate individual rights?  

Best, Michael

Put it this way. If someone is shooting at you and trying to kill you - you should be able to shoot back - no matter what or who is in the way. It's awful, I know. But what else are you supposed to do? Not defend yourself?
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"I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone’s right to one minute of my life.  Nor to any part of my energy.  Nor to any achievement of mine… I wished to come here and say that I am a man who does not exist for others."
-Ayn Rand
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Michael Edelstein

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Re:More Essays on French Website
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2004, 05:57:48 pm »

Patrick,

The conclusion you draw from your example of two individuals is perfectly valid. However, states at war do not consist of two individuals, they consist of collectives.

A closer parallel to war would be as follows: Someone is shooting at you. You turn on an innocent bystander, knock him out, take his gun, and shoot his family.

Best, Michael  
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Michael R. Edelstein
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