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Author Topic: Blacks tend to be more "libertarian" than any other ethnic group in America  (Read 9395 times)

"Hagrid"

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Letter from The Illinois Leader
http://www.illinoisleader.com/letters/lettersview.asp?c=14602

 I just read Mr.Thomas's column ["Black voters, wake up and send a message," May 5] about Black voters taken for granted and I was frustrated to a point in the direction of his column. I am a Black man living in downstate Illinois. I do agree that Blacks vote for the Democrats nine out of ten times.

I came across a study a month ago that Blacks tend to be more "libertarian" than any other ethnic group in America. The problem with the Republican Party in Illinois is that they do not support Black candidates when we run as Republicans.

Actually both Parties play lip-service not only to Blacks, but to many voters who align themselves with the two major Parties. This is a major reason why the Republicans in this state disgust me.

At least the Libertarian Party doesn't care whether a certain candidate is Black or White, as long as they represent the Party to their best ability. So, how can you judge the Democrats about their ineptness, when the Republicans over the last 20 years are no better?

This is one Black gentleman who won't be voting for Obama or Ryan, Bush or Kerry. The Libertarians are the right choice for me.

Chris Bennett
Effingham


If this is true (can someone find that study?), I think this would be a great way to reach out: Are you a Black Libertarian?  Tired of the Democrats assuming your skin color will determine your voting?  Join the FSP and help make a difference.

FTL_Ian

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It's true from my experience.  At the several Operation Politically Homeless booths I've done, blacks are the most accepting to our ideas.  Also, I got most waves and honks from blacks during the two tax day protests I've done.

Our ideas would be huge in the black community, if we could get them there...
Ian
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"Hagrid"

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I found a wonderful website at
http://chelm.freeyellow.com/black_index.html

The Yahoo group has 94 people in it, and we link to it on the liasion page, so that would be a good place to start.  Anyone know if we've had strong results there?

Also anyone know any of the people listed on that page? It's a long list, and (more) endorsements and publicity would be a great thing....
Richard Boddie is on that list, so maybe he's already doing outreach there?

CaptiousDuality

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This is true but it's not because of color it's because of location.

Many people think of the strongest "libertarian" segment as those in rural areas (such as northern NH) who just want to be left alone. While it's true that people in area tend to have some staunch libertarian beliefs the most fiercly libertarian people you'll find aren't from rural areas. They're from the city.

I grew up in multiple cities and I (like anyone from the city) can tell you there are basically two types of people in any city. Those who fight and those who don't. By this I mean that there's a culture of victimization in our cities. Unfortunately many liberals who think they're doing good things living on the outskirts of cities promote a variety of social welfare programs and needless anti-discrimination (needless because it's creating a problem where there wasn't one IE just because a restaurant owner kicks out one black guy who was causing a disturbance doesn't mean the restaurant is anti-black) efforts along with condescending affirmative action programs. These all feed well as signs from the society as a whole to children who grow up with the line from jaded adults in their neighborhoods and cynical teachers in their school who never try and help them do anything productice (such as I don't know learn?) that because of their financial standing and race they have no chance to make it in the world. Then one thing goes wrong for the kid and in the typical overdramatic way we think as children when we're so caught up in ourselves, we believe that all that is true. That they really are all out to get me and I don't stand a chance so fuck trying.

The other group, comprised of sensible adults are those who are willing to take responsibility and pay attention to what happens around them. Every single time there's a tax hike something closes. There's few retail stores to begin with that aren't there soley to meet the needs of those who commute into the city that work, and they generally close as soon as the commuters go home. When one of the few businesses trying to make it in the city closes because they can't afford to pay rent/utilities/minimum wage/ and a higher tax burden jobs and resources go away from city residents. Don't think that none of them notice that. Or that they're schools are horrendously managed, most city schools have more to spend per student than suburban schools because of property taxes on commercial high rises but yet they fail miserably. More and more of the sensible people in the city are turning to homeschooling, which is spreading quickly since many of these people are religious and the Christian community in general has always shown a strong support for homeschooling and private schools. They see how our war on drugs has created an underground market that's not safe and causes a loss of lives we wouldn't have if you could pick up some weed or smack at your Shell station. They see it all and when you take the time to drop off a reading list to these already libertarian leaning folks to give them an overview of macroeconomics you just strenghten that resolve. These are strong people with strong voices.

Outreach to urban areas is definitely a good idea. I've been trying to get people to go with me to just talk to people and hand out flyers for some time now. It'd be great if other people did that around their cities too. =) These are the people who are most impacted by small changes, they have the most to lose and the most to gain.
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lloydbob1

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I found a wonderful website at
http://chelm.freeyellow.com/black_index.html

The Yahoo group has 94 people in it, and we link to it on the liasion page, so that would be a good place to start.  Anyone know if we've had strong results there?

Also anyone know any of the people listed on that page? It's a long list, and (more) endorsements and publicity would be a great thing....
Richard Boddie is on that list, so maybe he's already doing outreach there?


A great website and a great subject " Blacks tend to be more libertarian than other ethnic groups".  I just wish in my lifetime of living in a large black population, I had ever seen any evidence of most Blacks being libertarian, at all!
I, of course, only know the Blacks I know which are urban Blacks. Most of the people in my neighborhood pack a lunch and go to work every day, try to bring up their kids decently and have to put up with the problems in the city, just as I do.
However, even among these people there is a tendency to take advantage of every government givaway program available. There is also a prevailence of out of marriage births.
A large percentage of the Blacks in my neighborhood and this is primarily males from early teens thru their 30's: deal drugs, drive dangerously through the neighborhood, intimidate everyone they can including their own elderly,  impregnate as many women as they can and live off of women ( mothers and girlfriends) and the system in general. This is the reality of the urban Black neighborhood and these problems are growing faster than libertarianism in the Black community.

I also think that if the feet of many of the people who are on the list of Prominent Black Personalities were held to the fire of the definition of libertarianism found below, they would not hold up as libertarians.
Walter Williams, Richard Broddie.....libertarians!  Thomas Sowell...Free Market Economist Conservative Republican!

As I have pointed out in the celebrity threads of this forum, there is a tendancy among many out there to grasp at straws to find libertarianism in someone in 'just' the right group. " So and so thinks drugs ought to be legalised! He must be a libertarian!" OR " So and so is for the 2nd amendment, he must be a libertarian!"  The fact that these people might support a Draft, tax refunds to people who don't pay taxes, government intervention in other countries and taxing the rich, somehow, escapes many of you.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2004, 08:07:31 am by Lloyd Danforth (lloydbob1) »
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AnonCastillo

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Lloyd, they may not agree with us on everything, but did you agree with us on everything when you became a libertarian?
Most of the blacks I know hate the government. They'll take advantage of any government program available, but they also recognize that most government programs are easy to abuse. They don't like government, but they'll use it to help themselves. So, when it comes to anti-governmentness, they're pretty much with us.
On personal responsibility, black women are largely with us, black men aren't as much.
I think a lot of blacks, like a lot of liberals, are an economics lesson away from libertarianism. Heck, so was I when I first found the LP.

One thing you might bring up if you get a chance to talk to any black celebrities is the way that voting 90% Democratic affects the way politicians view black voters. Because the black vote is almost entirely guaranteed to Democrats, Democrats don't need to campaign to blacks or focus on issues important to them, because they won't win any votes by doing so. Republicans won't take the time to campaign to blacks, because so few of them are even willing to consider a Republican. Some third parties may take up certain issues of theirs, but they'd take up more issues if blacks were more receptive. Because blacks vote almost purely for one party, they ensure that no party, certainly no major party, is going to take their issues as seriously as groups that can vote either way.
They don't even have to vote Repugnantcan. If a large enough number of blacks voted Libertarian, and the Democrats feared losing their hold over the black community, Democrats would start focusing on issues important to blacks. By being flexible in how they vote, they can get a lot more support from everyone.
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lloydbob1

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When I became a libertarian, there were about a dozen or so of 'us' and yes I did agree on everything as I began to develop my philosophy expressed in my signature below and apply it to all things.
Yes, if Blacks or any large voting block started voting Libertarian, the repugnocrats would have to push some libertarian ideas to get the votes back.
The Socialists got everything they wanted introduced into law over a 100 years or so, by getting the other parties to do it, without winning offices themselves, except for Bernie the clown in Vermont.
When you use the term 'issues that are important to Blacks', you imply that they have a common plight and, interests in common. This is another myth that I have found is not true in the Black community.
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bostnfound

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What is the definition of a black person?
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Dave Mincin

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What is the definition of a black person?

I wonder??  How many of you folks really even know a black person or have ever called one a friend?  Hey grew up in a neighbor that was as black as white, hell we fought, had out own teams that competed with each other, had a few tussels from time to time.  Thinking us white kids gave as good as we got, but when someone else came into our neighborhood white or black we stood together.

Makes me think of a good friend of mine Bo!  Hell he happened to be black, but that was not why he was my friend.  He was my friend because he was good people!  We often laughted over a beer about that...Geez Freedom is not about color or sexual preference, or sex, but about respecting your neigbor, and seeing past the crap!

Hey folks we all bleed red....Get past the crap the government schools teach you.  I could care less if your hair is purple...just if you are on board for Freedom and respect for your neighbor...then your ok by me!  

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libertyovertyranny

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What is the definition of a black person?

The concept of "race" is scientifically invalid; it doesn't exist.  There is probably more genetic difference between two random "black" people than between a "black" person and a "white" person.

But obviously, society still sees some people as "black."  I think this is slowly beginning to change as cultures slowly begin to merge.  With greater "tolerance" (which is not a good word because it implies understanding despite disapproval, when really that's not the case but that's the current vernacular so I'll just go with it), phenomena that led to the de facto segregation of the 1960s, 70s, and 80s are, in my opinion, beginning to be less prominent.  In other words, white people aren't necessarily so freaked out when a few black people move into the neighborhood.

Anyway, I think that in the current social context, a "black" person is someone who self-identifies as a "black" person.  Does this mean that a person of European decent could be "black" if he said he was?  Well, alright, not really, but you get my drift.  I can't wait until the day comes when no one will identify themself as "white" or "black;" these are such arbitrary terms that reflect the barbarism and ugliness of the past.  In my opinion, the census should immediately stop asking people for their race, but that's probably a topic for another discussion.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2004, 04:31:15 pm by libertyovertyranny »
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Tracy Saboe

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I guess most blacks I run into here in SD have such a black "victum mentality"  that I have trouble believing they're the most "libertarian" but then, maybe they're libertarian about other things.

Tracy
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thegotoguy

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I guess most blacks I run into here in SD ...

There are black people in South Dakota? :o

One thing I know is that black people don't like when white people lump them together and say things like "black people do this" or "black people think that".  But, for some inexplicable reason, we do it all the time.

Let's face it, a great many (probably most) libertarians are middle class white males.  If we want to reach people of other backgrounds, I really think we have to reach out to them one-by-one, starting with those we are close friends with.  People we are friends with tend to be of the same socio-economic circumstances as we are, and are more likely to be receptive to our views.  They, in turn, will serve as better spokepeople than we ever could.

Whether you're talking about selling a product, service, or ideology, people generally respond more favorably to people who they perceive to be like them.  Getting a bunch of white people together to go proselytize in black communities won't work and may be counterproductive.
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It's true from my experience.  At the several Operation Politically Homeless booths I've done, blacks are the most accepting to our ideas.  Also, I got most waves and honks from blacks during the two tax day protests I've done.

Our ideas would be huge in the black community, if we could get them there...
Ian

I observed the same thing when I was passing out FSP literature and anti-tax literature at the Dallas main Post Office this past tax day.  Blacks especially, and to a lesser degree Hispanics, were far more intereted in what I had to say and far more vocal in their agreement than whites.   The only people who expressed hostility toward us were white people.  
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If the government sanctioned your family members being strung up from trees, would you be a statist?
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"Hagrid"

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Ok, to keep this thread on track:

1) It's clear to those in the field that a high percentage of Blacks (and let's be general here, ok) can and do respond to the Libertarian message.  (And while the FSP message is not exactly the Libertarian, for the moment, let's focus on the similarity)

2) Democrats assume that Blacks will vote Democratic and so have alienated many of them, making them ripe for focusing on IF we can address them in a way that works.  Especially this year, since we can point to how the Democrats are doing this, during the election cycle.  The message isn't 'vote Libertarian' though, it's 'Neither party is meeting your needs as a community, so consider things like the FSP as a new way to do politics.'

3) The message cannot come from 'White middle-class Libertarians' if it's to be credible.  In one sense, picking New Hampshire (a largely white state according to the census) hurts, because it's harder to demonstrate the difference even now in NH compared to some major city with a large Black population.

4) There are some vocal and respected Black Libertarian-ish people.
Larry Elder, Walter Williams, Richard Boddie, for sure.  But clearly lots of others.  We need to reach, and get endorsements from as many of them as possible, because of (3).  I think this needs to made a priority by the Board, not to the exclusion of other avenues, but merely because it's under valued and the potential return on results could be quite large.  Imagine an article in a major magazine focusing on the FSP from the perspective of Black Libertarians?

SO the real question is How???  Anyone have a good idea?
And can anyone find that study quoted above?

For my own part, I went to high school in New York, in a largely minority filled school, where as the White Jewish guy, I was the real 'minority'.
And thanks to the NAACP and a Federal Judge who decided that the city had committed Intentional Segregation and proceeded to fine the city in progressively doubling higher fines until the city was forced to submit to all manner of 'fixes' including forced busing, etc.  Of course, 20 years later, it's still a mess, and on recent visits, I think it's gotten even worse... so much for the State fixing things.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2004, 01:34:27 am by SethCohn »
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