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Author Topic: Why so few new people joining FSP?  (Read 29730 times)

vermass

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Re:Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2004, 01:47:27 pm »

   Good question. Why are so few people joining the FSP. I believe the real reason is because they don't know if it will work. All this talk of NH being too cold is bologna. To be honest if that was the real reason someone wouldn't move would we really want them? How active are they going to be? How much sacrifice are they willing to endure if they can't even bear a little cold weather for freedom? How much do they really long for freedom? How much will they fight for freedom? I posted a "Valley Forge" comment somewhere. Ya, I wish CA was viable and chosen, you could live in any climate you wanted, but it's wasn't a viable state.
   If we have the numbers and fortitude we will not fail. If we don't have the numbers we may not reach all our goals but we cannot fail. We are already succeeding: most of us are moving no matter what the mumbers are. Winners!
    I admit to being angry, shocked, disappointed, discusted and a host of other emotions when it came to our slow membership growth. Where are all the Libertarian writers? Where are all the people who are fed up with the present system? Where are all the BIG mouths? Let them "put their money where their mouth is" and commit to the free state project and commit to it with all their heart!
   Activist? We need warriors! This is a call to arms! Not in the martial sense but in another sense. This is a war of the logic and rational. We use our votes, our pens, our hearts and our inexhaustable energy. Ours is the side of rightousness, the side of personal unallienable rights. We cannot fail. Failing is impossible. It has been said that freedom requires constant vigilance. We are vigilant,  we have already won, now we just need to work on obtaining our goals.
   Members need not get discouraged by our numbers, we will win, we will gather in NH and we will prevail. We don't live in a glass bubble, everyone else does.
   You who will not fight alongside us, lose. You lose because as long as WE fight, WE win, the fight is freedom.
   Members, do not despair! As long as our fortitude last we are winning! I'd rather fight alongside 5500 fellow FSPer's with hearts of Lions than live quietly alongside the Millions of sheeple. That includes the big mouths who rant and write but refuse to vote, refuse to join us.
   Half the eligible US population doesn't vote. They've given up. If we can give them hope.....
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Russell Kanning

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Re:Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2004, 03:35:26 pm »

     I agree. Many people have a wait and see attitude. But I get fired up every time I read an impassioned post from one of our members. I am proud to be fighting alongside you.
     One of the things I love about the FSP is that we are not just complaining about the government, we are doing something about it. It really affects the people I talk with, when they learn about what we are doing and that we are moving for no other reason but liberty. I don't mind that they will join later or will benefit from what we accomplish. That is what it is all about.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
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Kelton Baker

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Re:Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2004, 03:54:50 pm »

I know this has already been said, but I am observing a curious thing about some potential sign-ups,  they use this excuse, "I'm waiting to see if they get 20,000 people first before I sign-up".  

I had someone tell me this at a meeting I attended this week and I explained to him that he still should sign-up because he is not obligated to move unless we get 20,000 signers anyways, so he should just sign-up to help us reach that goal.  He responded that he already realized that.  When further pressed for a good reason as to why he wasn't joining, he admitted that he just wanted to see big progress on the ground in New Hampshire first.  --So I guess this is what we are up against, mostly: people have heard of the FSP, agree it is a good idea,  they would join and move,  but they are waiting, and watching first.
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LeopardPM

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Re:Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2004, 04:13:23 pm »

...which is exactly why we need to consider outrselves the 'shock' troops - we need to effect some changes as soon as possible - create free towns!

I posit that we will never get the 20k people UNLESS we can show proof of our ability, even in limited numbers, to effect change...

My own personal feeling is that 20k is a ridiculous figure.  and it does not guarantee a thing.  if we actually start creating/freeing communities in NH - we will attract much more than 20k - and we will need to in order to affect laws at the state level...

michael
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Russell Kanning

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Re:Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2004, 05:00:08 pm »

     I had originally planned on staying in CA and recruiting others before moving to NH, but I agree that we need to help the cause of liberty in NH first and then people will follow. So I am moving to Manchester by May.
     My parents opted out of NH and are staying in WY. But when I started making firm plans to move to NH, they can't stand to be left out of the fun. :)
     So many of us are jealous of those who are already there.  8)
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

LeopardPM

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Re:Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2004, 05:08:54 pm »

    I had originally planned on staying in CA and recruiting others before moving to NH, but I agree that we need to help the cause of liberty in NH first and then people will follow. So I am moving to Manchester by May.
     My parents opted out of NH and are staying in WY. But when I started making firm plans to move to NH, they can't stand to be left out of the fun. :)
     So many of us are jealous of those who are already there.  8)

Excellent, Russell!

this 'left out of the fun' attitude is another reason to start making changes ASAP - show everyone else what they are 'missing'... how would you feel if the american revolution was occurring but you were off in another country?  You would High-tail it back home to join in the 'cause'!!!

the folks will rally, we just need some focus/focal points....
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Dave Mincin

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Re:Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2004, 05:15:56 pm »

Hey Russel,

I'm told the weather is wonderful in NH in May. :D  Good to hear you will be coming on by to enjoy it!
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Russell Kanning

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Re:Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2004, 05:36:35 pm »

     I am really looking forward to it. The weather is always good in the 'free' state. ;D
     I meet so many people who say,'that sounds like such a good idea, but I can't go myself.' We won't get those people until they feel they are missing something by not moving to NH (freedom, lower taxes).
     I know retirees who have moved from places like CA to WY to save money on taxes (low sales, no income and low property taxes). How many of those people will we get when we can offer no sales, no income and even lower property taxes? Those are the kinds of people that can and will vote with their feet. :)
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Dave Mincin

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Re:Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2004, 06:16:47 pm »

Good point!  Can only speak for me, but have found in my limited experience that the system is really open here.  If we come in and are not a bunch of nuts, but are doers, respect the local folks, we can really accomplish much, and do it quickly.

Have already met many porc's who were not connected, but are now! :)
Really believe we need to be better organized, and once we are we can really begin showing that NH is the place for Freedom loving folks to come.

The Rep's and Senator's are accessible, will hear what you have to say, and on many issues that we hold dear will support us.  Heck I have had a couple of them come up to me when I have been throwing out my lala and giving me their cards!

Got invited over to a couple porc's house the day after I got here to have a few beers and pizza! :D  In the course of our conversation, well Michele said...with a big grin on her face, "If we had a 1,000 activist!!"

Thinking once we get connected, and with the folks coming in, we can begin making a real difference, real soon! ;)
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LeopardPM

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Re:Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2004, 06:38:33 pm »

Dave,
What is 'your lala' and why are you throwing it out?  ... or, perhaps, is this a question I really do not want answered...

no graphical descriptions required, thanks

maintains his own lala for private viewing arrangements only,
michael
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Dawn

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Re:Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #55 on: February 29, 2004, 08:54:14 pm »

So I guess this is what we are up against, mostly: people have heard of the FSP, agree it is a good idea,  they would join and move,  but they are waiting, and watching first.
This is good for us to all keep in mind - know well what outsiders are thinking about the FSP and why people might not join even if they support the idea. Not really surprising as I'm sure most of us have seen this kind of mentality in other situations. Many people are afraid to make a mistake so instead they do nothing!

So, as many of us as possible, need to get on the ground in NH asap and get to work. Any and all progress that is made in NH will need to be communicated regularly to FSP members and potential members so they can see that they need to sign up and get to NH quickly to help finish the job.

My ETA isn't firm yet but it should be soon!
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Jennie89

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Re: Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2005, 11:54:45 am »

Well, as a newly signed up group, having just made the commitment, let me clue you in as to why others in my circle are less inclined to show up. I'll be blunt, they think we're extremists and they are cautious about extremists.

From my own experience, I was reading a thread about homeschooling. (My parents are leaders in the homeschooling community, always striving for less regulation. Educators would know thier name if I gave it out.). So I see  a simple thread with the suggestion that we eliminate public schools entirely. I'm intrigued. I like this idea. I throw in an idea of my own, and the regulars turn around and attack it like I've suggested mass murder. And I'm on their side re: homeschooling. :::shakes head::;

Using verbal aggression toward the people who've just signed on, and yeah, you'll see fewer people sign up. Other potential newbies look at that and probably say "WTF?".  It's not rocket science folks.

I bet you guys have alot more unique page views on these forums than you do members.  I'm not saying change views, but a little tact and a welcoming spirit go a long way. 

Just my newbie two cents.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2005, 12:03:27 pm »

I bet you guys have alot more unique page views on these forums than you do members.  I'm not saying change views, but a little tact and a welcoming spirit go a long way. 

Just my newbie two cents.

Yes, some libertarians can be pretty strident. We even have a name for it, the "macho flash." ;) I actually think most Free Staters don't suffer from this condition, but they tend to be the quiet ones because they're off doing things. Those who positively enjoy argument tend to self-select on Internet forums in general (not just libertarian ones - this is a pretty welcoming place compared to, say, Free Republic, the conservative forum).
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Jennie89

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Re: Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2005, 12:13:38 pm »

*chuckle* The macho flash, I'll keep that in mind.

I completely agree with your statement that "those who positively enjoy argument tend to self-select on internet forums". That's definitely true. But since this forum is encouraging people to pick up their homes and move long distances, then the impact of that aggression is all the stronger.  Unlike a regular forum, the FSP commitment requires a life change, and most people are going to be cautious. If they (rightly or wrongly) percieve it as just a project with in-fighting and aggressiveness toward sympathizers, than it's going to be harder to get that commitment.

So more nice people need to post :)
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Why so few new people joining FSP?
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2005, 12:29:01 pm »

*chuckle* The macho flash, I'll keep that in mind.

I completely agree with your statement that "those who positively enjoy argument tend to self-select on internet forums". That's definitely true. But since this forum is encouraging people to pick up their homes and move long distances, then the impact of that aggression is all the stronger.  Unlike a regular forum, the FSP commitment requires a life change, and most people are going to be cautious. If they (rightly or wrongly) percieve it as just a project with in-fighting and aggressiveness toward sympathizers, than it's going to be harder to get that commitment.

So more nice people need to post :)

I agree with you completely. Some people have suggested eliminating entirely the general political discussion boards on this forum on those grounds, but I'm not sure whether those boards bring in more people than they turn off. I recently saw another forum that required people to use their real names to post, which tended to create a friendlier environment b/c people had to take responsibility for their comments.
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