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Author Topic: Libertarian vs. Conservative  (Read 18116 times)

mlilback

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Re:Libertarian vs. Conservative
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2002, 09:55:30 pm »

Jefferson's reasoning was that, if man's rights merely exist because they are recognized by man, then they can be negated if man no longer recognizes them.  For that reason, in order to be truly inalienable, they would have to stem from a source higher than man himself, and anyone who chose to negate them would have to challenge the Creator Himself.  Thus, man could not negate the divinely-inspired rights of other men, and so, as far as human beings were concerned, such rights were seen as inalienable.

But that doesn't show his personal beliefs, just what "the minds of people" felt.

Quote
The Founders were generally people who believed in God and in the idea that God had some sort of role to play with regard to the affairs of human beings, ...

Everything I've seen points to them as being diests, agnostics, or athiests who accepted that most people are religious and therefore you had to mention God in public documents, places, etc.

I've read a number of personal writings of the founding fathers that talk negatively about religion, and few of them attended church with any regularity.

They seemed to understand that religion is the opiate of the masses and you have to respect it. But you'll notice the references are generally vague terms like creator, and not God with a capital 'G'.

(I had a teacher in high school who was an athiest and had a large collection of personal writings of the time that he'd pull out anytime someone tried to claim this country was founded as a christian nation.)

I've never been interested in philosophy. To me it is just common sense and what I innately feel. As much as I like to rely on reason, I'm also heavily dependent on my intuition. As an agonistic, I have faith in myself and my beliefs, and that's all I need.

Mark
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JT

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Re:Libertarian vs. Conservative
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2002, 09:57:24 pm »

Thomas Paine had a lot of very excellent quotes about religion.  Too bad I can't think of any offhand...
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Hank

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Re:Libertarian vs. Conservative
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2003, 09:14:45 pm »

Where did MouseBorg's posts go?
Why does MouseBorg no longer post here?
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There's A race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't stay still;
So they break the hearts of kith and kin,
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jeffandnicole2003

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Re:Libertarian vs. Conservative
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2003, 11:57:30 pm »

I used to think conservative politicians were a good compromise... until the war.  When have we   lost  so much freedom than under this 'conservative' administration?
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Reaper

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Re:Libertarian vs. Conservative
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2003, 07:45:49 am »

HAHAHA!!!!!!!

Conservatives!!!

Look at all the lost freedoms due to the drug war, probably more than to any other single cause, the conservatives loved and supported every one of those unconstitutional laws.

Conservatives are the enemy, they are statists wearing a libertarian costume.
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Re:Libertarian vs. Conservative
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2003, 05:15:30 pm »

Where did MouseBorg's posts go?
Why does MouseBorg no longer post here?

MouseBorg took up a position on either his town or county government (can't remember which at the moment), and has had his hands full dealing with it ever since.  He was also discouraged by some things he saw developing here, but I believe he stopped posting mainly due to time constraints.

Kelton

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Re:Libertarian vs. Conservative
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2003, 02:45:56 pm »

The thing I admire about conservatives is that they recognize that rights come from somewhere besides government, just like libertarians do.

Where I disagree with religious right-wingers is not that rights are natural part of the existence of the individual that emminate from God, but that an individual cannot be an agent unto himself in determining what is best for him in his relation to his god in a secular society.

Stereotypical conservatives often go wrong in appointing themselves the arbiters between God and man in judging behavior they deem harmful, reference the drug war and all of the other vice wars, and so they swallow the camel while straining at the gnat, so to speak; they accept big government which they whole-heartedly oppose while seeking to regulate the wrongful behavior of others, (which they have every right to warn and speak out against), but regulate at the barrel of a gun.

While I recognize that social freedoms and economic freedoms are both the same indivisible freedom, I remain largely unimpressed by advances in social freedoms in places where economic freedom is declining.  For example, Europe has many social freedoms in greater abundance than in the United States, yet seems to continue on down the path of least resistance towards totalitarianism while you can frolic in the nude, freely get an abortion, hire a prostitute, and smoke cigarettes in public with abandon.  The areas of freedom that are supported by conservatives are largely lacking and on the decline in Europe (far more than in the U.S.) : gun freedom, economic freedom, and national sovereignty.

History shows that the quickest way to ruin a country is economically.  When there is massive poverty,  desperate people start looking for a political savior.  People that already respect the right of property, of self-defense, of independence are more likely to weather a storm than people who don't, irregardless of how liberal their views may be on other matters when their bellies are full.

For that matter, I prefer states that have certain conservative leanings over states that have 'liberal' leanings, IOTW, ID>MT, NH>VT.

--Just the opinionated ramblings of one conservative libertarian.
 
Of course, sometimes I wonder about the future of prosperity in the U.S., so dependant on the dollar, and the economic future of it all together after reading articles like this:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Asian_Economy/EG15Dk01.html

 


 
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address
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